Bitwig

virtualmark · Post by **virtualmark** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:19 pm

tooneba wrote:
virtualmark wrote:If you add a few high latency plugins, then you will get latency on the display. The transport goes out by a huge amount.
I think it's working as inteded. Player will play earlier timing if display showed earlier time position than the actual playback timing. You need to hit keyboard earlier because of the latency.

I doubt it, but I'd appreciate a confirmation from Bitwig if this is the case. I don't see any advantage whatsoever to having the display go out of sync with the audio.

If I see a midi note played or a filter sweep on the screen, I want to hear it at the same time. That way I can make changes as the loop plays.

echosystm · Post by **echosystm** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:27 pm

Has anyone tested if the modulation system is delay compensated?

If it isn't, this could be a big problem for people trying to do the equivalent of sidechaining etc, given that there is no actual audio based sidechaining (which would be delay compensated).

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:32 pm

echosystm wrote:Has anyone tested if the modulation system is delay compensated?

If it isn't, this could be a big problem for people trying to do the equivalent of sidechaining etc.

What do you really think the answer is?

"Bitwig features PDC except for the built in modulation system"

Probably not ...

Sprocket-Audio · Post by **Sprocket-Audio** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:37 pm

Thanks for the update Dom.. awaiting a fix eagerly

dehwild · Post by **dehwild** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:43 pm

dehwild wrote:Hello friends. I also did the latency test.
And I'm very happy with Bitwig Studio. The PDC it is very good, not perfect, but it is very very good!

In the first test I did with Ableton Live 9.

I used the synthesizer: Sylenth1 + Cableguys VolumeShaper 3 (to create the Sidechain 1/4 - in beat sync)

Captura-de-Tela-2014-03-26-às-23.10.11.png
In the first test: not used any more plugin.
In the second test: used with FabFilter MB.
In the third test: used with Brainworx XL V2 (is a plugin that requires a lot of processing)
In the fourth test: I used, iZotope Ozone 5 Maximizer

Tests in Ableton Live, have much latency. You can see the images.

Captura de Tela 2014-03-26 às 23.08.12.png
Then I did the same tests on Bitwig Studio. And he did MUCH better.

Captura de Tela 2014-03-26 às 23.15.07.png
See that in Ableton Live with the plugin Brainworx XL V2 there is a much higher latency.
Also without any plugin Live features a small latency.

Bitwig Studio exists in latency, but very very little.

I liked it!

The test did I do wrong?
In my tests the Bitwig Studio is working with the PDC.

virtualmark · Post by **virtualmark** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:47 pm

Well they've confirmed it as a bug, so maybe it only happens with certain plugins. At least they're aware of it and fixing it.

What's worrying me is that there has been no mention of the display going out of sync. I'd like to know if that's going to be fixed.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:55 pm

dehwild wrote: The test did I do wrong?
In my tests the Bitwig Studio is working with the PDC.

The are several different types of compensation necessary, like automation and synced plug-in timing.

Your scenario may be ok but plug-ins that sync to the clock (things like Effectrix) go off when latencies are induced before them on a track. This is the main bug mentioned.

dehwild · Post by **dehwild** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:17 pm

Okay I'll try to do new tests with Effectrix, Xfer Lfotools and others.
I'll also use automation and report here.

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:32 pm

No need to in regards to plugins that sync to the clock, there's definitely a bug that has to be fixed... And PDC is pretty high in priority.

virtualmark · Post by **virtualmark** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:38 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:And PDC is pretty high in priority.

Does this include the display going out of sync?

Lixma · Post by **Lixma** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:44 pm

dehwild wrote:Hello friends. I also did the latency test.
And I'm very happy with Bitwig Studio. The PDC it is very good, not perfect, but it is very very good!

In the first test I did with Ableton Live 9.

I used the synthesizer: Sylenth1 + Cableguys VolumeShaper 3 (to create the Sidechain 1/4 - in beat sync)

Captura-de-Tela-2014-03-26-às-23.10.11.png
In the first test: not used any more plugin.
In the second test: used with FabFilter MB.
In the third test: used with Brainworx XL V2 (is a plugin that requires a lot of processing)
In the fourth test: I used, iZotope Ozone 5 Maximizer

Tests in Ableton Live, have much latency. You can see the images.

Captura de Tela 2014-03-26 às 23.08.12.png
Then I did the same tests on Bitwig Studio. And he did MUCH better.

Captura de Tela 2014-03-26 às 23.15.07.png
See that in Ableton Live with the plugin Brainworx XL V2 there is a much higher latency.
Also without any plugin Live features a small latency.

Bitwig Studio exists in latency, but very very little.

I liked it!

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:46 pm

kennyda · Post by **kennyda** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:56 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:

You need to listen to some Steve Hillage mate!

kayhel · Post by **kayhel** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:45 pm

Hi Folks,

Unfortenately I can confirm Automation PDC issues with Bitwig Demo V1.02.

This is my biggest issue with live and I was so excited about Bitwig promising proper PDC. Now I am back to the ground.

Testing with Ozone5 to introduce latency, Automation PDC is not correctly compensated.
I add Bitwig tool-FX to check Automation PDC with muting:
When I put the chain instrument > ozone (House Master, 149ms latency) > tool, everything is correct.
When I change the chain order to instrument > tool > ozone, the automation is delayed by 149ms - so compensation does not work.

@Bitwig:
I posted the algorithm for PDC calculation already in the ableton live forum and directly to their support before 3 years and offered a workshop for a solution - but nobody is interested there.
If you, Bitwig, are however interested in the maths for Automation PDC, pls. contact me: kay.hellmich.privat@gmail.com
(The maths are not complicated but require individual Delay per Plugin, not per track)

Until PDC is working properly, i cannot switch to Bitwig and stick with StudioOne.

But at least one improvement is there - compared to live: Metering is compensated now (at least for the main metering in the mixer). Good job. Unfortenately the buffer size within the meters is a bit too small for my environment. Around > 200ms plugin delay the buffers cannot introduce the needed delay on the straight tracks and don't move any more. Could you please fix this / increase buffer size or maybe better: make it configurable for performance reasons?

Many thanks
Kay

Sprocket-Audio · Post by **Sprocket-Audio** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:47 pm

Just had confirmation from one of the devs that the PDC bug is being worked on right now and should hopefully make it into an update very soon (but not 1.0.3 as this is being compiled now).

Source - public Webinar with Volker (Bitwig Dev)

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!