Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

[kurasu]

It looks like you're running into a limitation of how many buffers the PDC will compensate. The current limit is set to 128 buffers, which is roughly 0.5s at 256/44.1. This value can be easily be tweaked at compile-time, but it would also mean that the engine would use more memory - its essentially a trade-off between max PDC and memory usage so we don't want to set it too high. I don't believe that having songs with longer than a max of 1 second latency makes any sense because it makes the user experience so bad, with any user action taking forever to be heard.

[Ogopogo]

Maybe a preference?

[virtualmark]

It looks like you're running into a limitation of how many buffers the PDC will compensate. The current limit is set to 128 buffers, which is roughly 0.5s at 256/44.1. This value can be easily be tweaked at compile-time, but it would also mean that the engine would use more memory - its essentially a trade-off between max PDC and memory usage so we don't want to set it too high. I don't believe that having songs with longer than a max of 1 second latency makes any sense because it makes the user experience so bad, with any user action taking forever to be heard.

And there we have it. So you decided this for us? So, we're allowed one instance of Fabfilter Pro-Q in linear phase mode, before we break the timing. Fantastic, thanks for that.

Are there any other trapdoors that you've built into the program for us? Maybe a limitation on the amount of kickdrum samples I can put in a track before the DAW deletes my C: drive?

Please fix this, give us a preference. I don't want to be constantly checking my projects to make sure I haven't introduced more than 0.5s of latency. I want to throw on effects, instruments and automation without having to worry about that crap.

[nechronics]

It looks like you're running into a limitation of how many buffers the PDC will compensate. The current limit is set to 128 buffers, which is roughly 0.5s at 256/44.1. This value can be easily be tweaked at compile-time, but it would also mean that the engine would use more memory - its essentially a trade-off between max PDC and memory usage so we don't want to set it too high. I don't believe that having songs with longer than a max of 1 second latency makes any sense because it makes the user experience so bad, with any user action taking forever to be heard.

Is it possible to have the engine adjust for this in real time or is it fixed in the code? If it sees a channel reporting latency over said limit, can it readjust the buffer limit to follow suit? I understand it may limit the fluidity of the software, but it would at least place that decision in the hands of the user.

[pdxindy]

It looks like you're running into a limitation of how many buffers the PDC will compensate. The current limit is set to 128 buffers, which is roughly 0.5s at 256/44.1. This value can be easily be tweaked at compile-time, but it would also mean that the engine would use more memory - its essentially a trade-off between max PDC and memory usage so we don't want to set it too high. I don't believe that having songs with longer than a max of 1 second latency makes any sense because it makes the user experience so bad, with any user action taking forever to be heard.

And there we have it. So you decided this for us? So, we're allowed one instance of Fabfilter Pro-Q in linear phase mode, before we break the timing. Fantastic, thanks for that.

Are there any other trapdoors that you've built into the program for us? Maybe a limitation on the amount of kickdrum samples I can put in a track before the DAW deletes my C: drive?

Please fix this, give us a preference. I don't want to be constantly checking my projects to make sure I haven't introduced more than 0.5s of latency. I want to throw on effects, instruments and automation without having to worry about that crap.

I've noticed that there are a number of places in Bitwig where people have already bumped up against arbitrary limitations and asked for more room.

This one will be frustrating because now the user will have to know the latency of all plugins and add them up to make sure that the total does not go above 0.5 seconds.

I think a user preference would be good. There are lots of users who would happily sacrifice some memory in exchange for not having to always watch the latency in case their project gets messed up.

[Costa Rica]

I hope BW doesn't take any attempt to 'bargain' on this issue.. if it's that simple to 'address', that is. Which.. it isn't.. otherwise it wouldn't have been such a big issue FYI

[virtualmark]

This one will be frustrating because now the user will have to know the latency of all plugins and add them up to make sure that the total does not go above 0.5 seconds.

Exactly. It's not fun to have to worry about such things when you're trying to make music. He said it's to save memory, but how much are we talking about? A few Mb is nothing these days, most people have 8Gb+.

[Costa Rica]

Yeah, what are the specifications? As it comes to the use of memory and PDC. I'd love to get more specific technical info about it.

[CableChannel]

Actually... if Ableton has 150 coders, Cubase has 40-50 or something, how on earth should Bitwig be able to compete, having 10 coders or so? They MUST do cuts somewhere, and for sure in testing, to keep up with the competition.

[Costa Rica]

Well.. we just want to be sure if they'll make the right cuts for us customers, I guess.

[Hez]

Actually... if Ableton has 150 coders, Cubase has 40-50 or something, how on earth should Bitwig be able to compete, having 10 coders or so? They MUST do cuts somewhere, and for sure in testing, to keep up with the competition.

Yes, there's no way they can realistically test as comprehensively which is why there are often new bugs in the releases they put out - it's simply impossible for a team that small to have as much coverage as the larger companies. Just means we've gotta be patient and thorough with our bug reporting I suppose.

Having said that I do wonder what they get up to at Ableton HQ most of the day

[CableChannel]

Yes, there's no way they can realistically test as comprehensively which is why there are often new bugs in the releases they put out - it's simply impossible for a team that small to have as much coverage as the larger companies. Just means we've gotta be patient and thorough with our bug reporting I suppose.

Having said that I do wonder what they get up to at Ableton HQ most of the day

Yeah, actually the BW guys are not performing too bad. Cubase releases always are a complete mess just the same. I think the BWs still have much motivation which makes them 5 times as efficient than normal workers

[bulusglo]

It's not fixed at all, I wish people would learn to test properly. It's not difficult, it took me all of 60 seconds to find out that it's not working!

Virtualmark, you are very agressive and counter productive imo.
My advice to you is to use Ableton Live, Studio One, Logic X, FLStudio or Reaper.
If that choice is not enough, please find a daw yourself, there are many out there, and please do not come messing things up here.

[Sprocket-Audio]

Totally agree this limitation needs to be a choice please..! As said in another thread, perfect PDC alone will make people come to Bitwig.. its what I'm waiting for after many years of frustration with Ableton, and not liking Cubase's interface. I have no idea how many latency inducing plugins I use, but on big projects, at over 100 midi channels, i'm sure it can go over 1 second.. I'm totally fine with this though.. waiting is a much better option than having to battle against delay issues. Many thanks for the hard work so far.

[Hez]

Totally agree this limitation needs to be a choice please..! As said in another thread, perfect PDC alone will make people come to Bitwig.. its what I'm waiting for after many years of frustration with Ableton, and not liking Cubase's interface. I have no idea how many latency inducing plugins I use, but on big projects, at over 100 midi channels, i'm sure it can go over 1 second.. I'm totally fine with this though.. waiting is a much better option than having to battle against delay issues. Many thanks for the hard work so far.

To be honest I've never gone above 500ms latency in Ableton Live on projects with 70+ tracks and quite complicated send/return routing. I don't tend to use heavily latency-inducing plugins like linear phase EQs though. For all intents and purposes Bitwig's PDC is pretty much sorted for my own production, but it would be great to see them completely nail it across the board because I've seen a LOT of people that would be interested if they perfected it.