Main Scales for Dance music?

[Nightpolymath]

Close to half of dance music is probably in A minor, with a root at 55 Hz it sits well with the bass reproduction in most clubs. G1 and B1 don't really cut it.

[DSmolken]

That's an interesting theory and there's probably something to it - lost of people make EDM in A minor so clubs buy speakers that reproduce 55 Hz well and that helps future EDM in A minor succeed, survive and reproduce. Kinda Darwinian.

I'm not sure that bass roots really work best in clubs in such a narrow range. Pop, hip-hop, dancehall, reggaeton etc. tend to be in whatever key works best for putting the vocal melody in the singer's range, and they work fine in clubs in all sorts of keys. I wonder how much vocal house is in Am, though.

[ntom]

whatever key works best for putting the vocal melody in the singer's range...I wonder how much vocal house is in Am, though.

Auto-tune.

[RyanSeong]

Found this article a while ago while reading a Thomas Penton interview (which is very informative!)

http://www.lostinmusik.net/is-there-a-c ... er-is-yes/

if you're making club music, I'd write in the more popular keys (Am, Dm, etc). These days, most DJs mix harmonically so you'll want to use "compatible" keys. But that's just my two cents.

[tapper mike]

Dance music isn't much about using scales, it's more about melody and repetitive bass patterns.

A melody is individual notes those notes are part of a scale even if the entire scale is not representited in the melody. A driving repetitive bassline (repeating the same note ad infintium) is often the tonic of a given key. Be it major or minor.

The shape or size of a room does not determine the possible key for a song. Tempo more then key should guide a dj's decision of what songs to mix back to back. If you have a drum solo at the beginning of a song key matching becomes unimportant. People can listen to two different songs in two different keys one right after another.

[RyanSeong]

The shape or size of a room does not determine the possible key for a song. Tempo more then key should guide a dj's decision of what songs to mix back to back. If you have a drum solo at the beginning of a song key matching becomes unimportant. People can listen to two different songs in two different keys one right after another.

Ah you're right in theory but I know so many DJs who just search through their library and pick songs by key rather than tempo. I think it's more common in genres that rely on Western theory like trance but what do I know? Haha[/quote]

[HaganeSteel]

The shape or size of a room does not determine the possible key for a song. Tempo more then key should guide a dj's decision of what songs to mix back to back. If you have a drum solo at the beginning of a song key matching becomes unimportant. People can listen to two different songs in two different keys one right after another.

Ah you're right in theory but I know so many DJs who just search through their library and pick songs by key rather than tempo. I think it's more common in genres that rely on Western theory like trance but what do I know? Haha

You're both right.

Mike has a great point.

I've heard DJs mix two songs in two different keys, with one fading out and the other fading in, and it was jarring and horrible.

I think they both need to be equally considered, but on a case-by-case basis and "tempo over key" shouldn't be a hard and fast rule.

Edit: Also, the thing about tempo is that a lot of dance songs/genre specific songs are written in pretty much the same tempo ranges, and those tempos help define the genres.

So choosing based on tempo may be overlooked because it comes so naturally with the genres.

[thomni]

I didn't see anyone post Dorian Mode in here. That's a funky scale, good for house music. Yes, it's based off ionian, but modea and all that. y'know..

[DJ Warmonger]

Minor for trance / progressive, major for mainroom / dance / hardcore. Especially F major.
Phrygian is commonly used for psy/goa trance.

I didn't see anyone post Dorian Mode in here

I'm currently making a track in dorian mode, but it's an experiment. OP asked for common practice

've heard DJs mix two songs in two different keys, with one fading out and the other fading in, and it was jarring and horrible.

It's even more horrible if said DJs are (good) producers at the same time. I can even name a few

[JumpingJackFlash]

I didn't see anyone post Dorian Mode in here. That's a funky scale, good for house music. Yes, it's based off ionian, but modea and all that. y'know..

Dorian is not "based off" Ionian. In fact, "Dorian" predated "Ionian" by several centuries.

In any event, this thread is now 5 years old, so I doubt that the OP still cares.

[jancivil]

aaaaand, someone did cite something that might as well be dorian as I think leaving its seven off was probably a 'typo'. although on C the D# is going to be Eb really.

[ghettosynth]

The shape or size of a room does not determine the possible key for a song. Tempo more then key should guide a dj's decision of what songs to mix back to back. If you have a drum solo at the beginning of a song key matching becomes unimportant. People can listen to two different songs in two different keys one right after another.

Ah you're right in theory but I know so many DJs who just search through their library and pick songs by key rather than tempo. I think it's more common in genres that rely on Western theory like trance but what do I know? Haha

You're both right.

Mike has a great point.

I've heard DJs mix two songs in two different keys, with one fading out and the other fading in, and it was jarring and horrible.

You heard a bad DJ. It is not necessary for two records to be in the same key to mix them together well. There are many techniques to mix two records and simply fading one into the other is rather simple.

I think they both need to be equally considered, but on a case-by-case basis and "tempo over key" shouldn't be a hard and fast rule.

Neither is as important as controlling the energy in the room. For variety DJs (e.g. some club DJS, most wedding DJs), tempo is an important concern. For me, it is largely irrelevant as most of the music that I play is at a similar tempo. About the only time that I ever consciously think about tempo is if I want to mix a record that is out of the style that I'm currently playing and either I'm using vinyl and the turntables will simply not be able to match speed, or if I did match speed, the records would sound strange. You can't play "safety dance" in the middle of a house set without thinking about how you're going to deal with the tempo issue.

Edit: Also, the thing about tempo is that a lot of dance songs/genre specific songs are written in pretty much the same tempo ranges, and those tempos help define the genres.

Yes, there you go.

So choosing based on tempo may be overlooked because it comes so naturally with the genres.

As does choosing on key, because, really, the styles often dictate the mixing approach. That's why DJ records have 32 bar intros and outros. For styles where people mix directly in the middle of the record, e.g. hard house, ghetto tech, cuts are used much more often. One of the best trance DJs that I've ever heard only did fast cuts. He was damn good at choosing the cut point and making it seamless.

The energy in the room is what matters, so I choose the next record based on what I think will keep it flowing in the direction that I want to go. Some DJs think that mixing in key helps here, I'm not sure that I agree. Mixing in key is often sold as pseudo-musicality for DJs so I can see why they buy into it, but there's not a lot of empirical evidence to suggest that it actually makes a difference. Only rarely is it too difficult to find a way to bring a record in without clashing in key/tempo and I can hear that in the headphones before I subject the audience to the experience. I don't think "oh, I need to choose a different record that's in key", I think, "what else will have a similar effect on the crowd" and I grab that record and repeat the experiment.

Mixing in key is overrated. Neither tempo nor key are really important in choosing records. In fact, even if two records are perfectly matched in both tempo and key and you plan to slowly crossfade, what's much more important is to avoid having musical elements clash rhythmically or having the spectral content of one record be dramatically different than another. These are actual common occurrences that you do have to think about. For example, if one record has too much swing with respect to the other, or a softer attack on the kick, the two records will sound like shit. You commonly hear this with DJs who think that when Traktor matches tempos, you're golden. That's why Traktor allows you to adjust the phase and tempo separately and easily. It's often the case that you need to slip one record to get them to play well together. Other elements that are more prominent, such as vocals, may make two records simply not work together. Similarly, if the spectral difference between two records that you can't tame the difference with EQ without seriously altering the character of the record, then you need to choose something else.

[DJ Warmonger]

Mixing in key is overrated.

or having the spectral content of one record be dramatically different than another

Not sure where you're going. Just the mixing in key ensures that the "spectral content" of two tracks will be similiar. On the other hand, matched keys alow you to mix tracks of somewhat different styles. Just the groove changes, but the sound does not.

Also, I don't see a reason why you couldn't mix a tracks that are similiar in both tempo, key and style. It's not like you need to chose one over another, just prepare good and large track pool . In the age of mp3 sticks it's not a problem.

I used to mix not in key for years, be it good or bad. Now I mix in a key and it's just uncomparable. If keys are laid right, everything matches and transitions can be seemless, regardless of style.
Not to mention if you're going to go artistic and spam ton of tracks of different styles, tempos and long transitions, matched keys are essential. It simply allows to achieve more, and I want to push it to limits when recording sets for online audience with good sound systems. Sets mixed in key will always turn out better.

[ghettosynth]

Mixing in key is overrated.

or having the spectral content of one record be dramatically different than another

Not sure where you're going. Just the mixing in key ensures that the "spectral content" of two tracks will be similiar. On the other hand, matched keys alow you to mix tracks of somewhat different styles. Just the groove changes, but the sound does not.

We're not talking about the same thing. Matched keys do not make for similar spectral content at all. A lot of spectral content is often defined by un"tuned" sounds, e.g. percussion. At least to the extent that differences matter.

Also, I don't see a reason why you couldn't mix a tracks that are similiar in both tempo, key and style. It's not like you need to chose one over another, just prepare good and large track pool . In the age of mp3 sticks it's not a problem.

As I said, I think that it's overrated. I see virtually no point to to worrying too much about it. I can hear in real time when records clash.

I used to mix not in key for years, be it good or bad. Now I mix in a key and it's just uncomparable. If keys are laid right, everything matches and transitions can be seemless, regardless of style.

Yeah, I disagree. Matched key does nothing of the sort. It just means that things are in key.

Not to mention if you're going to go artistic and spam ton of tracks of different styles, tempos and long transitions, matched keys are essential. It simply allows to achieve more, and I want to push it to limits when recording sets for online audience with good sound systems. Sets mixed in key will always turn out better.

That's your opinion, mine's different, and I don't think that you have any data to demonstrate your claim. Do what you like man, but I disagree. I think that mixing in key just means that you've limited what you can play together, i.e., I don't think that it allows you to "achieve more", rather, I think that it limits your ability to play creatively and in real time. You're trusting your eyes and not your ears. I don't need to mix in key to know when things don't work together, I use my ears to tell me that they're not working. Mixing in key doesn't help with clashes other than key, and that is the least of my concerns when I'm mixing records.