MDrummer Song Tab Question

[edkilp]

Hi. I had a question regarding the Song Tab and channels. I've created 3 different rhythms on 3 channels. They are similar, but each has a slightly different base rhythm. Now when I go to the song tab and start to arrange my song, I see lots of channels there, so I assume I can use my 3 rhythms. The problem I have is that I can't put them where I want them. For example, I would like an intro, verse, and maybe a chorus on channel 1. Then I'd like to use a verse and a break from channel 2 (which is different than channel 1) after the chorus from channel 1. But MDrummer will not let me put it at the end of my arrangement. It always goes to the beginning of the song, and both channels play at the same time. I'd like to be able to have blank spaces or perhaps drag my parts left or right, where now I can only drag parts up or down to different channels.

I think my explanation may be difficult to understand. Please ask questions if you need a better explanation, and I will try my best. I know clearly what I want to do, but not sure if it's possible, or if I'm explaining it well enough.

[MeldaProduction]

Hi, I understand. It's actually simple - you need to put a part in the beginning and set it's loop type to "Disabled". That's all .
I'd suggest using MIDI commands anyway. Assuming your arrange is not super-simple, you would definitely benefit from that.

[edkilp]

Thanks, and that was a lightning-fast reply! Yes, I use MIDI commands when I'm working in Reaper, but I often use MDrummer as standalone when I'm working out new arrangements. I just find it quicker when I'm working out different parts.

[edkilp]

Hmmmmm...Ok well I still don't see how to get the part on channel to 2 to play where I need it to play. Example, I want the intro, verse, and chorus to play on channel 1. Then I want a verse and chorus on channel 2 to play starting at measure 13. I can only start it at measure 1. How can I move these part around to get them where I want them?

[MeldaProduction]

You need to use the "Disabled" loop type:

[edkilp]

Yes I see how it works. So basically, I almost have to create 2 separate arrangements, then disable the parts I don't need on the respective channels. Right?

I wish it was possible to select a point on the timeline to insert my parts. is that something that could be done?

[MeldaProduction]

Yes that's correct. I'm afraid I cannot grant you your wish, probably, I'll check though. This specific trick is there exactly for what you are doing. You have to understand that the "song tab" is really just a "simplified" feature for those, who don't want to spend the 5 minutes understanding MIDI command method .

[edkilp]

Please understand that I DO understand the MIDI command method and I use it all the time. Sounds like you're calling me lazy. I use the song tab as a sketch pad for working out new ideas. When I'm just developing a new idea, I don't always want to open Reaper and start a new project. I just open MDrummer as standalone, generate a rhythm or 2, and start noodling around. I have no problems using multiple channels in Reaper with the MIDI commands. I would just like to use the song tab as sort of a pattern-based arranger, where I can put parts in where I want them.

In all the documentation I've read, you seem to come across as thinking the song tab is kind of pointless. Makes me wonder why it's even there. I think it can be very powerful as an arranger, if it had just a wee bit more versatility.

I hope the language barrier doesn't make me look combative.

[elassi]

I often use MDrummer as standalone when I'm working out new arrangements. I just find it quicker when I'm working out different parts.

That's what I do, too. But only to get an idea what the final drum sequences will sound like. Then I switch to MIDI commands as they give much more freedom when re-arranging the song (i.e. insert a break, lengthen a part, etc.). Guess you have the same idea in mind.

Maybe this small hint helps you: Instead of inserting multiple 'ghost' (disabled) parts insert just one on several tracks and change its length (called "bar count"). Don't mind to make it as long as the track for a start. Then, when ready to switch to other channels, just shorten the 'ghost' and insert the part you want.

[edkilp]

Let's look at this scenario: Maybe I want to edit my drum parts in Reaper's MIDI editor. Maybe for part of the song I'm composing, none of MDrummer's fills fit like I want them to. If I was able to arrange the whole thing in the song tab, I could then generate the MIDI, and edit until I pass out! Using the MIDI commands, I get what I get, and there's no editing to be done. Even though there are perhaps thousands of breaks in MDrummer, the possibility is there that they may not always be EXACTLY what I have in my head.

I would like to see the song tab renamed to Arranger, and allow users to arrange their songs, then save a MIDI file. I'll find a way around it if you don't want to look at changing it, but I think we need to realize that different people have different needs, and what seems useful to one person might seem ridiculous to another. Just makes sense to at least consider that not everyone will compose in this program exactly as you would, and making it more versatile will no doubt appeal to a wider customer base.

Again, not trying to be combative. Just an opinion. Having said all that, I do love MDrummer, and I'm very happy that I purchased it.

[edkilp]

elassi, yes that's a great idea! I actually didn't think about changing the length to get right up to the part I need. Thanks for that tip. As far as having more freedom with MIDI commands, I would say yes and no. There is still the possiblility that you have a particular break or fill in mind. If you generated a MIDI file from the song tab, you could easily just edit in the fill you're thinking of. With MIDI commands, you'd be sitting there for who knows how long, moving notes up and down, changing velocities, and hoping to hear something that's close to what you're thinking. To me, much easier to just edit it and move on.

[elassi]

If you generated a MIDI file from the song tab, you could easily just edit in the fill you're thinking of. With MIDI commands, you'd be sitting there for who knows how long, moving notes up and down, changing velocities, and hoping to hear something that's close to what you're thinking.

Yep, valid point!

And... actually, the "disable" method is a work around. Of course it'd be much more comfortable to just drop a part where you want it.

[edkilp]

Exactly! Thanks for understanding!

[edkilp]

I wonder if it will get any attention? I can see this song tab being tweaked into a very powerful creation tool. At least it would really be beneficial to me. A lot of others, I'm sure, but I don't know how many will speak up about it.

[MeldaProduction]

Uuuuh, the conversation got quite longer ... First of all, edkilp, not calling you lazy at all! Just pointing out that MIDI command method is far more versatile

Anyway I understand that the need to put there the "disabled item" may seem a little clumsy. In most cases it doesn't matter and it may actually be advantageous in a common scenario - if you'd need to move the arrange, you would need to move every single part, so select everything then move it. We could make each part movable artbitrarily, but the design is just different, so it is kind of complicating things really. And as you said you want to generate MIDI from it anyway, so it kind of seems like waisted time really. After all it's really an sequencer in a sequencer (host), so it is really just convenience thing. I'm personally lazy , so I'm using it to generate the block of MIDI commands , but otherwise it's not really ideal, because every change in the host must be reflected in the sequencer too.

Btw. when using MIDI commands, you can still record the output, if your host provides MIDI routing for plugin's output.

I'm actually surprised you are using the standalone version, I thought nobody is using it and almost removed it from MDrummer 5! Close enough .