MMultiBandDelay iterative feedback filtering

[CableChannel]

Ok there was a thread a couple of weeks ago where somebody wished for more filter options in MMBDelay. I think he wished to have all the MWobbler filters in MMBDelay....

Anyway, on the lookout for features that Melda DOES NOT have, there is the missing feedback damp in the delay. Some other delays offer a frequency "damping" in the feedback path. Effectively I think they filter the feedback repetitions recursively, i.e. the filter gets applied twice on the second delay repetition, three times on the third repetition etc. Don't know how it works exactly. If you choose a LPF, the delay will get darker and darker, if you choose a HPF, the delay will get thinner and thinner.

Maybe this is worth considering adding it to the to do list?

[Tricky-Loops]

I desperately tried to find a filter to be modulated by the LFO but there isn't one included in MMultiBandDelay?

Because if there were at least some basic filters like LP, BP and HP, the LFO could be used for all kind of damping effects...

[robertszalapski]

It works by putting the filter in the feedback loop, rather then the output, and I would like this feature as well.

[Tricky-Loops]

It works by putting the filter in the feedback loop, rather then the output, and I would like this feature as well.

The specialty is that all parameters of Meldaproduction plugins can be modulated by the modulators, so if there were some filters, you could modulate the "feedback" parameter with a LFO (or better with an envelope) that modulates a filter...

Filters are the most basic modulators, I'm wondering why they aren't included in the modulator section of EVERY (Meldaproduction) plugin?

[CableChannel]

Ah Tricky, thats a good idea! Wouldn't be exactly the feature I described, but yet an even more powerful feature. Maybe Vojtech just forgot to make that modulatable? Quick fix in 8.0.3?

But the filter in the loop would also definitely be cool. I want both features

[Gone soft]

Do you mean like if you set "Filter mode" in MMultiBandDelay" to "Feedback filter" and the "Max frequency to a lower value than the value of the band limit? Add to this that you can set an additional "Minimum frequency" for a HPF in additon to the LPF in the feedbackloop. These values are also modulatable. And then there's resonance and saturation, all modulatable as well.

[CableChannel]

BTW here is the thread where somebody asked for MWobbler filter types in MMBDelay

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &p=5754605

[Tricky-Loops]

I don't need as many filters as in MWobbler. But the most basic ones - LP, BP, HP (6, 12 and 24 dB) - should be included...

For this I would even sacrifice - i. e. do without - the EnvelopeFollower, I don't need it for delays, anyway... (Anyone here who uses it? )

[CableChannel]

I don't need as many filters as in MWobbler. But the most basic ones - LP, BP, HP (6, 12 and 24 dB) - should be included...

For this I would even sacrifice - i. e. do without - the EnvelopeFollower, I don't need it for delays, anyway... (Anyone here who uses it? )

+1

Exactly. LP/HP/BP with resonance should do it.

EnvFollower? Nah, rarely use them with any of the melda plugs, I find them too hard to configure to a musical behaviour.

[Gone soft]

Sett "Filter mode" to "Feedback filter" for what you people want, minus the choice of how steep the cutoff.

"Max frequency" = the frequency of a lowpassfilter. With resonance.

"Minimum frequency" = the frequency of a high pass filter, sharing resonance settings with the LPF.

Adjust these frequencies approriately and you have the equivalent of a band pass filter.

[elassi]

The Env/Follower won't be ditched as it is part of a module Voytech uses in all of the plugins. I'd bet a horse that this partial remove (in a single plugin) won't ever happen.

For the usage of the Envelope+Follower-options themselves (they're split into two features): these are powerful tools because you can tame and transform SC input with them. They make the SC signal a sculpting knife rather than a simple trigger impulse.

[CableChannel]

Sett "Filter mode" to "Feedback filter" for what you people want, minus the choice of how steep the cutoff.

"Max frequency" = the frequency of a lowpassfilter. With resonance.

"Minimum frequency" = the frequency of a high pass filter, sharing resonance settings with the LPF.

Adjust these frequencies approriately and you have the equivalent of a band pass filter.

Alright, true, in principle everything is there. It just difficult to tune in values where you can really hear the filter closing more an more for each repetition of the delay.

E.g. I fail to create a delay that gets a little darker with every repetition. What I get is the first repetition already much much darker than the original, and the subsequent repetitions getting darker only very subtly.

[Gone soft]

Alright, true, in principle everything is there. It just difficult to tune in values where you can really hear the filter closing more an more for each repetition of the delay.

E.g. I fail to create a delay that gets a little darker with every repetition. What I get is the first repetition already much much darker than the original, and the subsequent repetitions getting darker only very subtly.

Hm, if I have a hard time getting the sound I'm after it's because I can't get the damping subtle enough until I've tweaked a bit. I wish I was absolutely sure what was needed, I suspect steeper filters but I may be wrong and it may be matter of some of those mysterious nonlinearities or something. At least a few choices for character for those filters would be nice if possible, what do you say Vojtech?

[CableChannel]

Hm, if I have a hard time getting the sound I'm after it's because I can't get the damping subtle enough until I've tweaked a bit. I wish I was absolutely sure what was needed, I suspect steeper filters but I may be wrong and it may be matter of some of those mysterious nonlinearities or something. At least a few choices for character for those filters would be nice if possible, what do you say Vojtech?

So, what happens now is the repetitions get filtered with always at the same cutoff. So if you choose a LP at 1000Hz, the first repetition already has the highs cut pretty much. Subsequent repetitions get filtered again and again at 1000Hz, so they get even darker, but the effect is sublte. Most of the stuff below 1000Hz will remain, and most of the stuff above 1000Hz will be gone, simply put.

What I would need is a cutoff that progresses with the repetitions. I.e. first repetition gets filtered at 7kHz, second one at 5kHz, third one at 3kHz, and so forth. That way you would hear a more uniform darkening of the subsequent repetitions. Highs would be cut subsequently down.

I guess that will be difficult to program though

[Gone soft]

So, what happens now is the repetitions get filtered with always at the same cutoff. So if you choose a LP at 1000Hz, the first repetition already has the highs cut pretty much. Subsequent repetitions get filtered again and again at 1000Hz, so they get even darker, but the effect is sublte. Most of the stuff below 1000Hz will remain, and most of the stuff above 1000Hz will be gone, simply put.

What I would need is a cutoff that progresses with the repetitions. I.e. first repetition gets filtered at 7kHz, second one at 5kHz, third one at 3kHz, and so forth. That way you would hear a more uniform darkening of the subsequent repetitions. Highs would be cut subsequently down.

I guess that will be difficult to program though

And probably awfully CPU intensive.

Thinking about it i wonder if a less steep filter would be the right thing, set it to a fairly low frequency but the first echo won't be dampened all that much as it just doesn't cut that steep. Than the next repetition will be cut some more and the next one even more etc. The cutoff frequency would probably be set somewhat lower than the lowest you'd want to hear. This should be simple math, if we're dealing with for instance a 6 db filter.. ..arhm, I'm to tired to think about it now and for some reason I suck at thinking in therms of db anyway (perhaps because other things seemed more fun when I initially started out learning stuff) but I hope I'm on the right track here...