Help Adjusting Zebra Science Patch? Trying to learn how zebra works!

[mostlyjustj]

Hello Zebra users - I'm new to this synth and am no expert at synthesis in general, but am familiar with the fundamentals.

Problem: The HS Fretless Solo in the Zebra Science Bassics folder is pretty much exactly the sound I want! BUT, if I align MIDI notes in my bassline to align precisely from beginning to end, it produces a loud slap/click sound at the start of each note. When I have notes finish *just* previous to the start of the next one, the harsh slap/click goes away but the attack is still affected (more intense).

This seems like a 'filter envelope' type issue, but adjusting the envelope parameters hasn't worked and in fact there seems to be NO) parameter in ANY module used by this patch that changes this behaviour.

Does anybody have any ideas? I've found a fairly suitable amount of space between notes for my bassline, but I spent a LOT of time trying to adjust the patch and I'm trying to learn... Thank you!

[Howard]

Guessing it's a "legato" mode patch, in which case you can/should overlap notes you want legato, and further separate those you want to 'attack'. After that, try adjusting envelope Attack and Release times a bit... and/or velocities.
(I'll have a look at the patch soon)

[mostlyjustj]

Thanks Howard - for your input and your patches... very nice work!

Yes, it's definitely a Legato patch. It's funny, that the (rather harsh) click sound is only produced if the midi notes start and and at precisely at the same time (which is normal when laying out MIDI on a grid)... and it seems to come out of nowhere! If I overlap notes to acheive legato, the click goes away but the patch doesn't sustain for long, so the bass line withers pretty fast.

I have found the desired behaviour by unlocking notes from the grid and adjusting the notes to end *just* before the start of the next note - and once I do this there is still a slightly harsh attack but it can be controlled by adjusting the attack on envelope 1 as I would expect!

BUT when the notes start and end locked to the MIDI grid, the click cannot be controlled at all - which is a problem I've never encountered on ANY synth, and seems like exceptionally weird behaviour coming from the synth itself (finding a similar issue with other patches!) - which I find very odd and would love to know more about since I'm new to Zebra, and I know it's held in high regard. Thanks for any help you can provide!

[~Pd~]

Wondering if this is related to an Ace problem I discussed with Urs here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p5709705

I've run across this problem in Zebra and Bazille as well. It occurs mostly in poly patches but can show up in mono patches too. Sadly, the "singing envelopes" option in Ace 1) isn't available in the other plugins and 2) ruins the character of some Ace patches when it's activated.

[mostlyjustj]

No, different problem I think. It's a mono patch. It might be related in that maybe it's stealing a voice from itself, haha! Plus it's a little more obvious and less subtle sounding I think.

Here are the audio examples of what it sounds like with the clicks (midi notes locked to the grid): https://soundcloud.com/mostlyjustjunk/locked-to-grid

and what it should sound like normally (midi notes slightly spaced):
https://soundcloud.com/mostlyjustjunk/slightly-spaced

[~Pd~]

No, different problem I think. It's a mono patch. It might be related in that maybe it's stealing a voice from itself, haha!

I think that's what's happening, actually. Depending on the patch I can get Zebra to exhibit this sort of click consistently by holding down a key on my QuNexus and changing the octave selector up or down. This sends out a note off then a note on (for the same note an octave higher or lower) in quick succession, which would replicate the conditions that caused your click.

[mostlyjustj]

This sends out a note off then a note on (for the same note an octave higher or lower) in quick succession, which would replicate the conditions that caused your click.

Ha! I tried to recreate this problem by hand on my keyboard by trying to release a note while hitting another note at the exact same time, but I can't get it to work so I guess the timing needs to be *exact*.

I guess my question to you and to everybody else who uses (or develops) Zebra is: Doesn't just about everybody lay out MIDI on a grid for some parts of a song, and therefore doesn't just about everybody run into this problem all the time? Or is there something peculiar about my setup which is causing this to happen? It seems too obvious and annoying to just be a bug that nobody talks about?

[~Pd~]

Like I say it only happens with some patches under some conditions.

Programming this stuff isn't easy. I found a similar bug in Synth Squad a while ago that made it slur notes together if the note on happened immediately after a note off, so you couldn't use a grid properly in a sequencer with a legato patch, you had to cheat the notes shorter. FXpansion eventually fixed that and I have no doubt Urs and co. will get to the bottom of whatever's happening here.

BTW, in Reaper it's easy to select a bunch of MIDI notes and drag them all slightly shorter at once. That was my workaround for the Synth Squad problem. You should be able to do that in any DAW one way or another.

[mostlyjustj]

BTW, in Reaper it's easy to select a bunch of MIDI notes and drag them all slightly shorter at once.

Oh, I definitely use that one lots!

Bummer to hear that it's a bug - But I'm still liking Zebra quite a bit so far!

[~Pd~]

I'd hesitate to even call it a bug in the case of Zebra, it's so mild and infrequent. I've only encountered it in a handful of patches. More like... an unforeseen and rare edge condition.

[mostlyjustj]

More like... an unforeseen and rare edge condition.

Hahaha!! Dude - it's a bug!

[#rob]

Hahaha!! Dude - it's a bug!

Let's not start splitting hairs, Zebras have way too many of those...

[mostlyjustj]

Hahaha!! Dude - it's a bug!

Let's not start splitting hairs, Zebras have way too many of those...

Haha! Thanks Rob

Seriously though, this clicking when there is no space between MIDI notes is showing up with a NUMBER of Zebra patches now that I've been using it for awhile, and it's definitely annoying.

Can anybody tell me: Is this a known issue? I've not experienced this with any other synth, but can I fix Zebra's behaviour on my system somehow? I know Zebra's been around for awhile and has an excellent reputation. I'm genuinely confused!

[voodoo99]

Well, i've tested your setup. With the sound you mentioned and aligned notes. Its the same here. Pops and Clicks everywhere.

Best advice i can give you, is to split your part on two tracks with a zebra-instance on each track. Both tracks can play your notes alternately then.

[Howard]

Hi... finally found some time. Try this for now: Click on envelope 1 '+', then double-click the attack time's Velocity and Key Scale controls to zero them both. Does that help?

BTW that's just a possible quick and dirty solution for you. I don't get that obvious clicking on my system (Cubase or Reaper, Mac), so I can't confirm. What's your setup (DAW, platform etc.)?