PHYSICALLY MODELLED emulations of electric guitars and acoustic/electric basses

[Tricky-Loops]

To give you a better idea of the purity of sound that I try to reach with the emulation that I have to purchase, listen to this wonderful tune from Tino Izzo (also known as ONE)

For a pure sound AAS Strum Acoustic GS-1 might be better, or the AAS String Studio VS-2...

Have you already tried Sakura by Image Line? That's another good emulation, especially for exotic sounding plucks & strings...

[BlackWinny]

Nice Tune. Good Luck! To get that level you will need fret noises, string buzz, and finger slides, changes in pick position too. Aww what do I know? Probably should mind my own business.

That's the challenge, precisely.


And you'll agree, I think, that it might be worth it, even if only for the great pleasure to approach these sounds in a project at five composers.

Just the pleasure to try...

[BlackWinny]

For a pure sound AAS Strum Acoustic GS-1 might be better, or the AAS String Studio VS-2...

Good point! I am focused on electric emulations, but it is a fact that I could give a try also simply to my Strum Acoustic Session followed by effects well chosen.

Have you already tried Sakura by Image Line? That's another good emulation, especially for exotic sounding plucks & strings...

Precisely, Sakura is in my list of emulations fow which I'd like to have feedbacks from some of those who read this thread.

As many already know, for reason of personal origins my main music is a style of eurochinese new age style, mixing occidental modern instruments and traditional chinese-japanese instruments, and Sakura is in project anyway for myself. And if it would fit for some of my needs for this contract, it would be indeed very nice. Now the question is what is the quality of its emulation for electric plucked strings...

[Tricky-Loops]

Have you already tried Sakura by Image Line? That's another good emulation, especially for exotic sounding plucks & strings...

Precisely, Sakura is in my list of emulations fow which I'd like to have feedbacks from some of those who read this thread.

As many already know, for reason of personal origins my main music is a style of eurochinese new age style, mixing occidental modern instruments and traditional chinese-japanese instruments, and Sakura is in project anyway for myself. And if it would fit for some of my needs for this contract, it would be indeed very nice. Now the question is what is the quality of its emulation for electric plucked strings...

I think Sakura is rather aimed at acoustic pluck and strings sounds. No matter how hard you try, you won't get a convincing electric guitar sound out of it but that isn't its purpose, anyway. It's best suited for making exotic "Asian" acoustic pluck & string sounds but it doesn't emulate certain instruments specifically...

[BlackWinny]

Have you already tried Sakura by Image Line? That's another good emulation, especially for exotic sounding plucks & strings...

Precisely, Sakura is in my list of emulations fow which I'd like to have feedbacks from some of those who read this thread.

As many already know, for reason of personal origins my main music is a style of eurochinese new age style, mixing occidental modern instruments and traditional chinese-japanese instruments, and Sakura is in project anyway for myself. And if it would fit for some of my needs for this contract, it would be indeed very nice. Now the question is what is the quality of its emulation for electric plucked strings...

I think Sakura is rather aimed at acoustic pluck and strings sounds. No matter how hard you try, you won't get a convincing electric guitar sound out of it but that isn't its purpose, anyway. It's best suited for making exotic "Asian" acoustic pluck & string sounds but it doesn't emulate certain instruments specifically...

Ok. So more for shamisen, koto, pipa, guzheng, guqin, dan tranh... For myself it will be good and probably one of my next purchases in october. So even if it doesn't fit for the project, it's at least good from you to have mentioned it for my own preferred usual styles.

[drunken jesus]

Because it is a project that I don't conduct myself, I'm just one of the five keyboardist composers/players for a series of 16 sountracks of documentaries of 50 minutes each on sciences of life, earth and universe. And there will be perhaps a second series after the first. And one of the challenges (there are several in it) is: no sample at all. And it will be for several years, at least four years for the first series.

Gotcha that is a very interesting challenge, I'd be interested to hear the results

I have already from them Strum Acoustic Session, Lounge Lizard Session, Ultra Analog VA-2, and String Studio VS-2, so yes, I agree it is a great company for the physically modelled synthesis. But since I don't know their Strum Electric GS-1, it is the reason why I ask for experiences on it. But I can say that yes, it would be probably one of my favorites in lack of certitude about some others from the list.

Yeah physically modelling seems to be their forte so I'm quite fond of their products and own a few as well but I don't own the Electric one yet unfortunately, but as Tricky Loops mentioned sometimes their FX aren't too great, I imagine they don't go overboard with their complexity cause of how cpu intensive PM synthesis is

It's an idea than I have never tried. A bass guitar in my FM8, yes.

The resynthesis, in fact... I have to confess that I don't know at all the principles of the resynthesis.

And... yes, I'm open to all the types of synthesis. One of the rules for this project at several musicians is "No samples". And for me it is a good challenge because I'm not so interested by the samples. The work on sound design to emulate sounds with the best accuracy is such an enthralling challenge!

Yeah depending on what you're attempting alot of the more complex synths are capable of reproducing bass(especially) & guitar like sounds when they're ran through quality amp/cab simulations, one problem I've come across with alot of the PM guitars is for a realistic solo it requires alot of keyswitches automation etc.

Although I'm just getting familiar with resynthesis as far as I understand it you input an instrument sample and the synth analyzes the spectrum & reproduces all the frequencies with a bunch of sine waves

Another sound you may be interested given the nature/style of your project is a PM Organ ran through an amp simulator, theirs a ton of great free PM organs

[dwozzle]

I'd already planned to take a look at String Studio while it's on special, with something of a positive bias because I like Chromaphone, so I spent some time with the demo last night and this morning. Obviously this is only my opinion, but for acoustic bass and guitar specifically, based mostly on the factory presets, it's not in the running, nothing reasonable. There were a few patches that had something to do with those sorts of sounds, but nothing that struck me as worthwhile if you were trying to actually imitate the sound and feel of an upright or a guitar. Many of the guitar-related patches reminded me of cheesy 4-op FM versions.

No comment on whether it's better than the alternatives given the particular constraints of this project, but it's not something I'd choose to use for either purpose outside that context.

In fact, my conclusion about SS in general is that I don't need it, even on special. There are other things I'm more interested in, ironically for this thread including Chris Hein Bass, and SS just didn't get my thing going. Will give it some more chances another time before the sale's over, but I felt the same about it last night and this morning, so there you have it.

[kbaccki]

And when you say that...

If you just want to make noise with what you have around the house, grab some pots and pans. If you want the best that software PM has to offer, then you've probably heard it already. If you want realistic sounding bass and guitar then you'll either need to use sample-based products... or hire a bass/guitar player and do it the old fashioned way.

... you are simply telling that out of the samples all the emulation methods for music is noise! No? What a crappy way to consider the other synthesis methods! And what an awesome respect to all the other musicians...

No, all I'm saying is if you want specifically good sounding and realistic guitars and basses then your best bet is sample-based. It doesn't mean PM in general is useless, it means for what you're asking for PM can only go so far.

Also,you may be better off with hybrid methods instead of pure PM. For example, short cycle samples for attack portion (which may be hard to synthesize), things like pick noise or string scrape, synthesis for pure tones and harmonics, etc.

[kbaccki]

Nice Tune. Good Luck! To get that level you will need fret noises, string buzz, and finger slides, changes in pick position too. Aww what do I know? Probably should mind my own business.

The fretless bass should be a no brainer. The lead guitar should be pretty straightforward as well (minus the pick noise perhaps) since it's basically a heavily effected pluck + tone + pitch bend. The nylon and steel acoustics could not be synthesized to that level of detail and complexity without sampled waveforms. In it's basic form, the sound of a steel acoustic string vibrating is pretty straightforward... you could start with a decent clav synth patch and play with ADSR and filters to get closer to a guitar string with resonance. All the other stuff with the guitars -- scraping, sliding, certain attack waveforms (fingers and picks), etc. -- are exceedingly difficult to replicate without using actual waveforms from the real world. It doesn't mean you can't find a pleasing nylon or steel string sound, but there will inevitably be some components missing that gives it away as synthesized... same for brass, saxophone, woodwinds, etc. etc.

Simple solution: drop the "realistic" requirement... just get the best sounding sounds period, screw realism... chasing something that doesn't exist.

[BlackWinny]

I'd already planned to take a look at String Studio while it's on special, with something of a positive bias because I like Chromaphone, so I spent some time with the demo last night and this morning. Obviously this is only my opinion, but for acoustic bass and guitar specifically, based mostly on the factory presets, it's not in the running, nothing reasonable. There were a few patches that had something to do with those sorts of sounds, but nothing that struck me as worthwhile if you were trying to actually imitate the sound and feel of an upright or a guitar. Many of the guitar-related patches reminded me of cheesy 4-op FM versions.

No comment on whether it's better than the alternatives given the particular constraints of this project, but it's not something I'd choose to use for either purpose outside that context.

In fact, my conclusion about SS in general is that I don't need it, even on special. There are other things I'm more interested in, ironically for this thread including Chris Hein Bass, and SS just didn't get my thing going. Will give it some more chances another time before the sale's over, but I felt the same about it last night and this morning, so there you have it.

It funny because I was arrived at the same conclusion. It seems to be the less achieved of all the AAS products. I've heard many things in it which are more "inspired by" rather "emulating" the real instruments. VS-2 sounds much better (more cristaline) than VS-1... but in terms of emulation it hasn't improved anything. When we hear the presets (and even the additional banks made by sound designers) we stay more in the domain of a synth than in the domain of emulation of real plucked or bowed string instruments.

Indeed, for me, String Studio is ruled out. If I choose AAS (and it's not yet chosen at all), I would choose Strum Electric or Strum Acoustic (or even both depending on the song in work).

For the moment, I keep in mind for this project:

• AAS Chromaphone (I'm not sure if it will be as accurate as Strum Electric)
• AAS Strum Acoustic Session (that I already have and which could fit with well chosen effects for some tunes)
• AAS Strum Electric GS-1
• CutterMusic Revitar 2 (added during the discussion, I didn't know that it emulates also an electric guitar!)
• Fsynthz PhybAce Pilot (as far as I recall I think that nobody ha told a feedback about it)
• Keolab Spicy Guitar (added during the discussion, I didn't know that it emulates also an electric guitar!)
• TobyBear Electric Cowboy 3000 (as far as I recall I think that nobody ha told a feedback about it)
• Xhun Audio IronAxe

I think that little by little I'm on the path to take on a choice between:

• AAS Chromaphone (I'm not sure if it will be as accurate as Strum Electric)
• AAS Strum Electric GS-1 (with my Strum Acoustic Session in complement)
• Xhun Audio IronAxe

[BlackWinny]

Gotcha that is a very interesting challenge, I'd be interested to hear the results

I hope I'll be allowed to publish some tunes.

Yeah physically modelling seems to be their forte so I'm quite fond of their products and own a few as well but I don't own the Electric one yet unfortunately, but as Tricky Loops mentioned sometimes their FX aren't too great, I imagine they don't go overboard with their complexity cause of how cpu intensive PM synthesis is

Yes, but for the effects I have already a good bunch in Amplitube, and also some very good free effects that I use for a long time, all the collection Modern Plugins from Antress, and a good bunch from Blue Cat Audio and from Voxengo. So I think that if the embedded effects of AAS are a bit disappointing I have there some good solutions to overcome the problem.

Yeah depending on what you're attempting alot of the more complex synths are capable of reproducing bass(especially) & guitar like sounds when they're ran through quality amp/cab simulations, one problem I've come across with alot of the PM guitars is for a realistic solo it requires alot of keyswitches automation etc.

Yes, it's exact, but I think that the attention of the listener will be in great part focused to the image since these tunes will be a background for very beautiful images and with variations sometimes due to the narration. So I imagine that some little flaws sometimes can be tolerated here that could not be tolerated of course in a "standard" situation. But I (and the other four) want to do as well as possible of course, in the aim to keep these tunes for perhaps another user later for my own.

Another sound you may be interested given the nature/style of your project is a PM Organ ran through an amp simulator, theirs a ton of great free PM organs

Aaah... that's a very good idea!

When you say PM Organ you think to paraphonic Hammond emulations like GSi VB3, Native Instruments B4, LinPlug Organ 3? As I already own VB3, it can be an idea to use it, either raw either with strange sounds got after some effects...

[BlackWinny]

And when you say that...

If you just want to make noise with what you have around the house, grab some pots and pans. If you want the best that software PM has to offer, then you've probably heard it already. If you want realistic sounding bass and guitar then you'll either need to use sample-based products... or hire a bass/guitar player and do it the old fashioned way.

... you are simply telling that out of the samples all the emulation methods for music is noise! No? What a crappy way to consider the other synthesis methods! And what an awesome respect to all the other musicians...

No, all I'm saying is if you want specifically good sounding and realistic guitars and basses then your best bet is sample-based. It doesn't mean PM in general is useless, it means for what you're asking for PM can only go so far.

Also,you may be better off with hybrid methods instead of pure PM. For example, short cycle samples for attack portion (which may be hard to synthesize), things like pick noise or string scrape, synthesis for pure tones and harmonics, etc.

Ok. Either I let you directly renegociate my contract with the producers (and of course you know what will be the result), either you cease to talk us about samples!!! Is it clear?

You make us shit with your samples!!!

[kbaccki]

Ok. Either I let you directly renegociate my contract with the producers (and of course you know what will be the result), either you cease to talk us about samples!!! Is it clear?

You make us shit with your samples!!!

Stop using "realistic" and "synthesized" in the same thread and we'll be on the same page.

[barrybitter]

I use Image Line Sukura, and would recommend it, of course it is good for other stringed instrument sounds as well, you can get an accurate Sitar sound from it also.

[BlackWinny]

Ok. Either I let you directly renegociate my contract with the producers (and of course you know what will be the result), either you cease to talk us about samples!!! Is it clear?

You make us shit with your samples!!!

Stop using "realistic" and "synthesized" in the same thread and we'll be on the same page.

Stop to pollute this thread! Go away! I've been constraint to alert the administrators of your troll which are in total non-respect with the requirements of my producers! If you have nothing to do here other than trolling by assertions totally off topic, go away!