IKM SampleTank 3 (ST3) Now Available

[anxiousmofo]

It's a state sanctioned holiday to celebrate Mormonism. Not my bag, personally. Glad to have the day off, though!

And I'm wrong- 7/24 is the holiday (not 7/25), thus my desire to have the download appear at 12:01 on that day. That said, I also took off 7/25 so I have more time to spend with my family and play with ST3.

[basslinemaster]

Essentially IKM are saying that they don't think the ST3 content is sufficiently better than the ST2 content, to attract buyers IF they were allowed to buy just the ST3 engine.
Think about it: currently, we are being expected to buy ST3 based entirely on trust, which we have no reason to have. Why not prolong the pre-order price for existing ST2 owners, until a month after the release, so we can read reviews, try a demo version, etc.? It's not as if IKM are a new company that needs the money up front desperately.
People like me, who are happy with the sounds they already have in ST2, just want a 64 bit player. We aren't going to buy ST3 right now, without any way of trying it out. But I'd pre-order an ST3 player, because as long as it's 64 bit and it plays ST2 sounds, then it does everything I want.

If you re-read my previous post, you'll see that everything I put in it is true - no matter how much money they might lose as a company, in lost sales, (of an ST3 player), they won't do it, because they'd have to admit they were wrong. Have you ever been that afraid of saying "I was wrong", that you'd turn down tens of thousands of pounds in sales, or even more? The whole thing just makes no sense at all. The ST3 engine obviously exists, and can import ST2 sounds, and doesn't need the ST3 library in order to function with imported ST3 sounds, so why on earth wouldn't they give us the option to buy just the ST3 engine?

Perhaps they can explain it to us. The post on the IK forum that Peter linked to a few pages back doesn't explain it at all.

[dsan@mail.com]

Personally, I've lost interest in the motives, methods and madness.

It's quite obvious IKM have decided their business plan and how they want to maneuver forward. As right or wrong as it were.

Many do not agree with the decisions, some rightfully so. None the less, they are IKM's right to decide for themselves.

It is also IKM's responsibility to accept accountability for their decisions.

I broke down and ordered the update because I needed the x64 version and it is the only way to get it. I'm still apprehensive about this until I actually see product, given the number of statements over the months that became untrue.

I do not want to rely on the possibility there will be a free player and do not wish to go through all the hype that will be associated with that announcement.

I accept at some point IKM WILL devalue this product as they have ST2. However, my goal is to be able to enjoy and work with my ST2 arsenal in a current environment.

Other than the x64 environment I really don't see where this product is bringing substantial worth to my scene.

I agree with those posters stating there should be an x64 engine available without having to buy the whole package; however, there isn't. Plain and simple.

I suggest to all who want to know why is this and why is that - forget about it. Stop frustrating yourself and move forward.

You'll never know the truth anyway.

M2C

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Will downloads become available at 12:01 a.m. on 7/24 (presumably EST if in the U.S.)? I'm asking because 7/25 is a (crappy) holiday here in Utah, and I'd love to download the sounds overnight, so I can use ST3 after I wake up for my day off on 7/25.

We don't have a specific time set but it will be opened by our I.T. folks in the Italian office so bear that time difference in mind.

[Roman Empire]

I´m not sure if this was asked already:

1. Will projects currently using the old ST2 dll automatically load the ST3 dll instead?
2. Is there any change to the authorization mechanism? I´ve had too much trouble with reauthorizing my ST2 over and over again for reasons beyond common sense (no changes to hard- or software), so it´d be nice to not see that happening so much..

Best Regards

Roman Empire

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

I´m not sure if this was asked already:

1. Will projects currently using the old ST2 dll automatically load the ST3 dll instead?
2. Is there any change to the authorization mechanism? I´ve had too much trouble with reauthorizing my ST2 over and over again for reasons beyond common sense (no changes to hard- or software), so it´d be nice to not see that happening so much..

Best Regards

Roman Empire

1. No, they will not. SampleTank 3 is a completely new install. Your old projects will still open SampleTank 2 and you can transition them if and when you'd like to.

2. You will use Authorization Manager, if you have trouble with this in SampleTank 3 please let our support team know at http://www.ikmultimedia.com/support (I know there may be workarounds for some issues like the sandboxing that can happen with certain programs in OS X for example).

[Roman Empire]

Thanks so much for your superquick answers Peter!

[bigcat1969]

It is fascinating to read through this and other threads about ST3. I come at this as someone who has been interested in ST2.5 sounds, but certainly only as fun almost retro sounds versus Kontakt and KU where I generally play. Miroslav is the exception, as I think it was so well sampled that it holds up after all these years. Still I like sounds and getting something like 10,000 instruments in about 40 gigs on one of those buy one get four free plus free xpansion pack deals was a nice addition to my library. Talk about finding any sound no matter how obscure.

Since I'm new, I've only seen IKM miss one release date, which was disappointing, but I'm a gamer I'm used to missed dates. I'm happy that I can upgrade my, what was it 70 buck, 40 gig oldies, instrument to a modern 64 bit instrument for 100 bucks. I've had no problem in my contacts with the company which have been cordial and no negative history, so no baggage or sense of entitlement, since as I say the upgrade is great for me. So I come at this with fresh eyes and somewhat uniquely a fractional understanding of the work involved in instrument creation.

If you want to know what instrument creation is like, try it. All you need is a mic and your computer. If you have an instrument record it into Audacity. One note at a time across say three velocity layers, loud, medium and soft. No instrument? Then clap your hands at different loudnesses and gently slap other things around you. Make mouth noises. Get a hundred sounds recorded. Edit each sound in Audacity until it is a clean wave file with no dead space at beginning or end. If you have Kontakt pull the various sounds into an instrument there or if not use the free Maize Sampler. Then create some sort of front end with a pretty picture and twiddly knobs for things like EQ, Reverb and Envelope. Now all that work you just did, do it 4000 times (you can reuse the interface) and release it to a waiting world and you will have ST3. If you really create a 4000 instrument musical collection, I'll buy it from you for 100 dollars. Be warned the one instrument I've done completely from scratch took roughly 12 hours. 12 times 4000 is a lot... (not that every instrument takes the same amount of time, go sample every key on every pipe on a pipe organ and then sample a car horn tooting, different levels of commitment)

After all the angst is put aside that is what is on offer. Walk into your local music shop and look at all the instruments. That is what you are getting a digital version of for 100 bucks. Granted acoustic instruments still sound better than digital renditions there of so its not a perfect comparison, but none the less the bang for the buck is incredible. It's 2.5 cents per instrument. Some of them might not make the 2.5 cent cut (I don't understand you EDM guys and your instruments at all), but I suspect you can find a way to get a dime's worth of use out of at least a quarter of the instruments. A couple of those 10 cent pianos, guitars, basses, drums and synths sound kind fun to these old ears.

[neverenoughfunk]

It is fascinating to read through this and other threads about ST3. I come at this as someone who has been interested in ST2.5 sounds, but certainly only as fun almost retro sounds versus Kontakt and KU where I generally play. Miroslav is the exception, as I think it was so well sampled that it holds up after all these years. Still I like sounds and getting something like 10,000 instruments in about 40 gigs on one of those buy one get four free plus free xpansion pack deals was a nice addition to my library. Talk about finding any sound no matter how obscure.

Since I'm new, I've only seen IKM miss one release date, which was disappointing, but I'm a gamer I'm used to missed dates. I'm happy that I can upgrade my, what was it 70 buck, 40 gig oldies, instrument to a modern 64 bit instrument for 100 bucks. I've had no problem in my contacts with the company which have been cordial and no negative history, so no baggage or sense of entitlement, since as I say the upgrade is great for me. So I come at this with fresh eyes and somewhat uniquely a fractional understanding of the work involved in instrument creation.

If you want to know what instrument creation is like, try it. All you need is a mic and your computer. If you have an instrument record it into Audacity. One note at a time across say three velocity layers, loud, medium and soft. No instrument? Then clap your hands at different loudnesses and gently slap other things around you. Make mouth noises. Get a hundred sounds recorded. Edit each sound in Audacity until it is a clean wave file with no dead space at beginning or end. If you have Kontakt pull the various sounds into an instrument there or if not use the free Maize Sampler. Then create some sort of front end with a pretty picture and twiddly knobs for things like EQ, Reverb and Envelope. Now all that work you just did, do it 4000 times (you can reuse the interface) and release it to a waiting world and you will have ST3. If you really create a 4000 instrument musical collection, I'll buy it from you for 100 dollars. Be warned the one instrument I've done completely from scratch took roughly 12 hours. 12 times 4000 is a lot... (not that every instrument takes the same amount of time, go sample every key on every pipe on a pipe organ and then sample a car horn tooting, different levels of commitment)

After all the angst is put aside that is what is on offer. Walk into your local music shop and look at all the instruments. That is what you are getting a digital version of for 100 bucks. Granted acoustic instruments still sound better than digital renditions there of so its not a perfect comparison, but none the less the bang for the buck is incredible. It's 2.5 cents per instrument. Some of them might not make the 2.5 cent cut (I don't understand you EDM guys and your instruments at all), but I suspect you can find a way to get a dime's worth of use out of at least a quarter of the instruments. A couple of those 10 cent pianos, guitars, basses, drums and synths sound kind fun to these old ears.

all of this sounds great... but the facts of the matter is... you need to know the history of ST and the promised upgrades for about 5 years first... then you would have a better understanding... we all know that the advancment of vst/i(s) are unbelievable... and understand the work that goes into them... but how you treat your customers is another issue... until you have a feel for that... you do not have a clue about why individuals are upset with ik multimedia...

[bharris22]

Plus, there is something distasteful about making you buy something you don't want in order to get something you do. The fact is that I do not have any need for additional traditional samples at the moment, no matter how good of a deal those instruments are or how much work it took to create them. I just want the 64 bit shell, and am willing to pay for it (albeit not $99 or more).

[mhog]

Plus, there is something distasteful about making you buy something you don't want in order to get something you do. The fact is that I do not have any need for additional traditional samples at the moment, no matter how good of a deal those instruments are or how much work it took to create them. I just want the 64 bit shell, and am willing to pay for it (albeit not $99 or more).

Never heard of romplers/samplers sold in "empty players" versions. "Empty" Kontakt player is just a demo, for instance. Why IKM should sell an empty ST3?! If you need just the shell, just buy it (for $99 is a no brainer!) and then remove the samples and patches you don't need. I used to do like that with ST2 and I will do the same with ST3 (for HDD space reasons).

[LoopyFruit]

I'm happy that I can upgrade my, what was it 70 buck, 40 gig oldies, instrument to a modern 64 bit instrument for 100 bucks.

Yes that's great for you..... but early ST buyers paid a hell of a lot more than that for just Sampletank alone, I think that is why they feel so hard done by.

[basslinemaster]

Personally, I've lost interest in the motives, methods and madness.

It's quite obvious IKM have decided their business plan and how they want to maneuver forward. As right or wrong as it were.

Many do not agree with the decisions, some rightfully so. None the less, they are IKM's right to decide for themselves.

It is also IKM's responsibility to accept accountability for their decisions.

I agree with those posters stating there should be an x64 engine available without having to buy the whole package; however, there isn't. Plain and simple.

I suggest to all who want to know why is this and why is that - forget about it. Stop frustrating yourself and move forward.

You'll never know the truth anyway.

M2C

Happy Musiking!
dsan

I'm not frustrated, I just think it's a question that needs to be asked in public, so IKM have a chance to explain themselves to their customers. (Or ex customers). I want to understand their reasoning behind it, because maybe there is something I am misunderstanding about the whole situation. The more of us who ask for their reasoning, the more likely they are to feel they have to explain their strange decision. As I said, they are losing money because they won't release an ST3 player, and one wonders what they think they are achieving by this. Or maybe they aren't losing money, and I am completely wrong. Who knows?

[basslinemaster]

After all the angst is put aside that is what is on offer. Walk into your local music shop and look at all the instruments. That is what you are getting a digital version of for 100 bucks. Granted acoustic instruments still sound better than digital renditions there of so its not a perfect comparison, but none the less the bang for the buck is incredible. It's 2.5 cents per instrument. Some of them might not make the 2.5 cent cut (I don't understand you EDM guys and your instruments at all), but I suspect you can find a way to get a dime's worth of use out of at least a quarter of the instruments. A couple of those 10 cent pianos, guitars, basses, drums and synths sound kind fun to these old ears.

Thanks for your input. Most of us would like to TRY the product before buying it on the basis of a score or so of (too rapidly played) demoes.

Walk into your local music shop and look at all the instruments. That is what you are getting a digital version of for 100 bucks.

Are you serious?

[jsp1979]

As I said, they are losing money because they won't release an ST3 player, and one wonders what they think they are achieving by this. Or maybe they aren't losing money, and I am completely wrong. Who knows?

Indeed. It's worth entertaining the idea that not selling the player separately *is* the way for them to maximize revenue (and profit).

Due to IK's size, they no doubt have a number of people (in accounting, marketing, product managing, etc.) whose job it is to make these sort of decisions. They must run these sort of scenarios ("Should we have a free player, sell a player only version, or just sell the player/samples all in one unit?"). It doesn't mean they always make the right call, but many propose "obvious" ways for IK to make more money as if their team hasn't probably discussed this all ad nauseum. It reminds me of the posts at KVR where someone says, "Why sell this for $150? You could sell way more if you charged $10!!" Plus, IK isn't required to divulge their reasoning to anyone about it. Virtually no company will do that. Go ask NI about their marketing and pricing strategies and see how far you get.

At any rate, despite all of the angst, IK still keeps rolling along. The GB deals (where posts say, "This is crap. I already own this. Offer something people really want") still meet and exceed their targets. People are buying it and IK appears to be doing well relative to their peers. Heck, half of the people who railed on ST3 in this very thread have already preordered.*

*Ok. I pulled that number from the air, but many of have pre-ordered.