Mac Pro Tower (Nehalem or Westmere)

[whyterabbyt]

But because i7s has lower TDP they can not stay that long on max performance so in sort time Xeons will give better performance over i7s..

lower TDPs are better.

[chilly7]

One thing about new Mac Pro is that u can upgrade CPU but only to Ivy Bridge because with Haswell Intel has changed chipset.

[chilly7]

The bad thing about thouse generic perfomances results is that it has two flaws:
1) it does not take on to account TDP of CPU, But TDP means that CPU can withstand more heat befor it will have to downclock.
And here where Xeons CPUs shine over i7s.
While i7s can give u better generic test results in real world i7 can work on max performan only for short period while Xeons with good cooling can work on max performance 24/7( Which new silinder Mac Pro has) so in real world Xeos have better performance.

Actually TDP is the heat generated, not how much it can stand.
But any decent benchmark results should reflect a processor's thermal behaviour. And since working with audio doesnt actually entail a 24/7 performance requirement its probably not that relevant to bring up.

Nice of you to compare 'an i7' with 'Xeons with good cooling' btw. Wouldnt want to make it fair and compare the latter to 'an i7 with good coooling,' would we.

) another thing is CPU cashe size. If ur cashe is full, for no real time task it will mean longer time of computations but for real time task like music production it will mean cracks and noises.

Well, no. A full cache doesnt mean cracks and noises. After a certain point in time, the cache is going to be full anyway. The issue is whether it contains the code you want (ie cache hit), and if not, how long it takes to access that (cache miss). But even cache misses, dont automatically mean cracks and noises, not if the audio buffers can be filled sufficiently fast. And cache misses are kind of inevitable anyway if you're running if, eg a lot of disparate code like, erm, multiple plugins.
Meanwhile, any decent benchmark will reflect a CPU's cache effectiveness.

I think I7 can star down clocking with in 2-5 minutes, so do not expact it will work at Turb speeds all the time. It might not even work at regular speeds and will have to downcklock. While Xeons CPUs are much more resistant to this problem and in new Mac Pro case it must can work all the time on max performance with out downcklocking.

I think notebooks cannot have good cooling, and desctops can only come clouse to cooling performance of Mac Pro only with good liquid cooling.
But if we speaking about Macs, there is only iMac with i7 which does not have whater cooling( and also i am not speaking that fans will star be hearble wich is not good for music production and even for housewife)

I think speaking about cashe, yes it is not the only one reason of cracks in sound but it is a link in chain and if this link is brouken awrything else is brouken, so that's why i advice not to miss cashe size of CPUs in real time tasks like for example music recording.

[chilly7]

But because i7s has lower TDP they can not stay that long on max performance so in sort time Xeons will give better performance over i7s..

lower TDPs are better.

I think for cooling yes, for performance no.

[chilly7]

delete it.

[whyterabbyt]

But because i7s has lower TDP they can not stay that long on max performance so in sort time Xeons will give better performance over i7s..

lower TDPs are better.

I think for cooling yes, for performance no.

You think making a processor run hotter increases its performance?

[whyterabbyt]

[I think I7 can star down clocking with in 2-5 minutes, so do not expact it will work at Turb speeds all the time. It might not even work at regular speeds and will have to downcklock.

An i7 'might not even work at regular speeds' eh? Sounds properly scientific, that.

While Xeons CPUs are much more resistant to this problem

What's magical about a Xeon that prevents this, then?

and in new Mac Pro case it must can work all the time on max performance with out downcklocking.

Because its magic?

How many systems do you regularly have running at 100% CPU useage 24/7 by the way? Because Ive been running systems doing exactly that, as part of my job, for more than a decade, and I can guarantee you that bog-standard non-Xeon parts can do 24/7 rendering week after week on stock cooling just fine.

I think notebooks cannot have good cooling, and desctops can only come clouse to cooling performance of Mac Pro only with good liquid cooling.

Whit? The only thing close to good cooling is good cooling? Wow, insightful.

But if we speaking about Macs, there is only iMac with i7 which does not have whater cooling

And the laptops. And the Mac Minis.

Seriously, what you're saying is just one long list of mistakes.

I think speaking about cashe, yes it is not the only one reason of cracks in sound but it is a link in chain and if this link is brouken awrything else is brouken, so that's why i advice not to miss cashe size of CPUs in real time tasks like for example music recording.

Its not even close to a significant enough factor, let alone compared to the ones that everyone knows about (driver choice, latency settings yada yada).

[whyterabbyt]

Seriously, though; the singular advantage of Xeons is that they need not be as singular as desktop parts. More cores, more processors on a single board. If what you're doing scales well across multiple cores, like 3D, then at some point dual hexcores (for example) or better start to become the best overall option because cores. Not TDPs, not cache size, not mystical cooling blahblah. More cores working in parallel equals more work done.

[chilly7]

But because i7s has lower TDP they can not stay that long on max performance so in sort time Xeons will give better performance over i7s..

lower TDPs are better.

I think for cooling yes, for performance no.

You think making a processor run hotter increases its performance?

look like this.

For example
prossesor #1 can withstand 10 units temperature.
prossesor #2 can with stand 15 units of temperature.
When prosssesor goes buyond that temperature it have to dowclock in order not to damege it self.
So in real world Xeons can work at much higher temperatures with out any risk of demage befor it will have to downcklock.

That's why u do not see Xeons CPUs in notebooks because even though it wont be a problem for CPU to be that hot, u won't be able to touch your note book with ur hands.

[chilly7]

[I think I7 can star down clocking with in 2-5 minutes, so do not expact it will work at Turb speeds all the time. It might not even work at regular speeds and will have to downcklock.

An i7 'might not even work at regular speeds' eh? Sounds properly scientific, that.

While Xeons CPUs are much more resistant to this problem

What's magical about a Xeon that prevents this, then?

and in new Mac Pro case it must can work all the time on max performance with out downcklocking.

Because its magic?

How many systems do you regularly have running at 100% CPU useage 24/7 by the way? Because Ive been running systems doing exactly that, as part of my job, for more than a decade, and I can guarantee you that bog-standard non-Xeon parts can do 24/7 rendering week after week on stock cooling just fine.

I think notebooks cannot have good cooling, and desctops can only come clouse to cooling performance of Mac Pro only with good liquid cooling.

Whit? The only thing close to good cooling is good cooling? Wow, insightful.

But if we speaking about Macs, there is only iMac with i7 which does not have whater cooling

And the laptops. And the Mac Minis.

Seriously, what you're saying is just one long list of mistakes.

I think speaking about cashe, yes it is not the only one reason of cracks in sound but it is a link in chain and if this link is brouken awrything else is brouken, so that's why i advice not to miss cashe size of CPUs in real time tasks like for example music recording.

Its not even close to a significant enough factor, let alone compared to the ones that everyone knows about (driver choice, latency settings yada yada).

Because of higher TDP CPU can work longer befor it have to downclock.

New cilinder Mac Pro cooling is very ifissient. They cool entire computer with one fun. It's effisiency of this cooling is similar to good water cooling in regular descrop computers.
I saw videos on Youtube people tested Mac pro at full blast. CPU and video cards and it was noisless.
But to say truth i never saw even high end gaming computer with water colling wich was noisleess at full blust.

If u do rendering of video it is good that ur CPU work at max speed.
If we speaking about music production, heavy CPU intensive projects in DAW can kill ur CPU esely, so it is good if ur CPU do not have to downclock in the midle of recording.


I was speaking about high end desctop i7s. And only IMac has it.
MacBooks and Mac Mini are good computers but are not made for heavy duty tasks like music production because their cooling are not that good and u will hear anoying fans if u push hard CPU.

again i repit if something in chain is brouken entire chain will be brouken, so CPU cashe size is one part of this chaine.

[chilly7]

Seriously, though; the singular advantage of Xeons is that they need not be as singular as desktop parts. More cores, more processors on a single board. If what you're doing scales well across multiple cores, like 3D, then at some point dual hexcores (for example) or better start to become the best overall option because cores. Not TDPs, not cache size, not mystical cooling blahblah. More cores working in parallel equals more work done.

No metter haw many cores and speed of them u have, if CPU cashe is full it will waist it's cicles.
Speaking about TDP more TDP u have more CPU can heat with out need to dowclock.

[medienhexer]

But because i7s has lower TDP they can not stay that long on max performance so in sort time Xeons will give better performance over i7s..

lower TDPs are better.

I think for cooling yes, for performance no.

You think making a processor run hotter increases its performance?

look like this.

For example
prossesor #1 can withstand 10 units temperature.
prossesor #2 can with stand 15 units of temperature.
When prosssesor goes buyond that temperature it have to dowclock in order not to damege it self.
So in real world Xeons can work at much higher temperatures with out any risk of demage befor it will have to downcklock.

That's why u do not see Xeons CPUs in notebooks because even though it wont be a problem for CPU to be that hot, u won't be able to touch your note book with ur hands.

TDP is what intel specifies the cooling system has to be able to dissipate. It's not the actual power consumption.

I can not confirm that a current iMac will heat up noticeably when pushed hard with music production. Former generation iMacs tended to get really hot and you could feel it. Current 27" is really smooth...

So, if the CPU doesn't overheat, it's not clocked down. Simple as that.

Also, if you care to look for that info, Apple hardware benchmarks as the fastest in class under Windows, they got their cooling under control.

As to the OP:
The previous Mac Pro hadn't received a proper update for 5 years. If you want a system you can use for 5 years or longer, don't bother with that old tech. Apple will probably support it for another one or two OS versions and that's it.

[chilly7]

But because i7s has lower TDP they can not stay that long on max performance so in sort time Xeons will give better performance over i7s..

lower TDPs are better.

I think for cooling yes, for performance no.

You think making a processor run hotter increases its performance?

look like this.

For example
prossesor #1 can withstand 10 units temperature.
prossesor #2 can with stand 15 units of temperature.
When prosssesor goes buyond that temperature it have to dowclock in order not to damege it self.
So in real world Xeons can work at much higher temperatures with out any risk of demage befor it will have to downcklock.

That's why u do not see Xeons CPUs in notebooks because even though it wont be a problem for CPU to be that hot, u won't be able to touch your note book with ur hands.

TDP is what intel specifies the cooling system has to be able to dissipate. It's not the actual power consumption.

I can not confirm that a current iMac will heat up noticeably when pushed hard with music production. Former generation iMacs tended to get really hot and you could feel it. Current 27" is really smooth...

So, if the CPU doesn't overheat, it's not clocked down. Simple as that.

Also, if you care to look for that info, Apple hardware benchmarks as the fastest in class under Windows, they got their cooling under control.

As to the OP:
The previous Mac Pro hadn't received a proper update for 5 years. If you want a system you can use for 5 years or longer, don't bother with that old tech. Apple will probably support it for another one or two OS versions and that's it.

I am not saying Apple cooling is bad, i am just saying that no Apple products have as good cooling as new silinder Mac Pro.In fakt i never saw any PC even with water cooling wich has as good cooling as new Mac Pro.
And if u do music production u want silent computer and even if u are a house wife u want silent computer.

[whyterabbyt]

look like this.

For example
prossesor #1 can withstand 10 units temperature.
prossesor #2 can with stand 15 units of temperature.
When prosssesor goes buyond that temperature it have to dowclock in order not to damege it self.
So in real world Xeons can work at much higher temperatures with out any risk of demage befor it will have to downcklock.

You're confusing yourself. Xeons cant stand 'much higher temperatures'.

The maximum operating temperature of the E5–1650, found in the Mac Pro is 64C (http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Inte ... -1650.html)
The maximum operating temperature of a Haswell 4770K is 72.2C (http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/I ... 4770K.html).

The Haswell i7 can stand higher temperatures than at least one processor used in the Mac Pro.

And TDP isnt a measure of how much heat they can stand, its a measure of how much thermal power they give off. The higher the TDP of a CPU , the more cooling it needs.

That's why u do not see Xeons CPUs in notebooks because even though it wont be a problem for CPU to be that hot, u won't be able to touch your note book with ur hands.

Except you do see Xeon notebooks.

http://www.techpowerup.com/194848/euroc ... 2-cpu.html

Facts. You lack them.

[medienhexer]

chilly7, discussions with you are really tiresome.

That point about cooling is moot. The cooling is great but it has to be because the TDP for the CPU requires better cooling.
I have first hand experience which says that the iMac is just as quiet as the Mac Pro. Cooling is not an issue, noise is not an issue.

And no matter what you just wrote, you were saying that cooling was an issue before. That i7 CPUs would clock down within 2-5 minutes. That's not true if cooling works fine which it does. If you can't stand people correcting you, don't talk about things you don't know anything about. Because people will call you out.

OP was asking about the old Mac Pro vs. iMac. The new Mac Pro is far more expensive and might not be an option. So why keep pushing?

And please, can you please spell things correctly? It's completely obvious that you know how to spell. You do in one sentence, you don't in the next.