KVR Audio

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:20 pm

A PM will prolly do it

Happy Musiking!
dsan

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:38 pm

gmontano wrote:Same problem with RME UFX here. Crashes when using 48 samples over USB at least.

I've never heard of anyone working at 48 samples. That's extremely low, excessively low even. You're literally gaining less than 1ms by working that low compared to 64 samples. 128 samples is already considered real-time by most people.

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:45 pm

Uncle E wrote:
gmontano wrote:Same problem with RME UFX here. Crashes when using 48 samples over USB at least.
I've never heard of anyone working at 48 samples. That's extremely low, excessively low even. You're literally gaining less than 1ms by working that low compared to 64 samples. 128 samples is already considered real-time by most people.

How can low levels of latency be "excessive"? I promise you: I feel the different at 128 samples on my RME.

gmontano · Post by **gmontano** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:53 pm

Uncle E wrote:
gmontano wrote:Same problem with RME UFX here. Crashes when using 48 samples over USB at least.
I've never heard of anyone working at 48 samples. That's extremely low, excessively low even. You're literally gaining less than 1ms by working that low compared to 64 samples. 128 samples is already considered real-time by most people.

I like as low as i can when playing my electronic drums. I used to use 32 samples with my RME PCIe. And for what it is worth, every single other VSTi can handle this.

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:55 pm

gmontano wrote:
Uncle E wrote:
gmontano wrote:Same problem with RME UFX here. Crashes when using 48 samples over USB at least.
I've never heard of anyone working at 48 samples. That's extremely low, excessively low even. You're literally gaining less than 1ms by working that low compared to 64 samples. 128 samples is already considered real-time by most people.
I like as low as i can when playing my electronic drums. I used to use 32 samples with my RME PCIe. And for what it is worth, every single other VSTi can handle this.

+1. Same thing here. I use 32 samples most of the time with little or no problem at all when tracking.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:00 pm

MickGael wrote:"Use a higher latency" is an entirely unacceptable response.

In this case, it may be acceptable, at least if they're not saying larger than 128 samples. That's an acceptable amount of latency. SampleTank 3 has real-time T-RackS processing going on, it's going to need more processing power to work at lower latencies.

With that said, IK should probably post minimum system requirements for working at different latencies.

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:06 pm

Uncle E wrote:
MickGael wrote:"Use a higher latency" is an entirely unacceptable response.
In this case, it may be acceptable, at least if they're not saying larger than 128 samples. That's an acceptable amount of latency. SampleTank 3 has real-time T-RackS processing going on, it's going to need more processing power to work at lower latencies.

With that said, IK should probably post minimum system requirements for working at different latencies.

System requirements is one thing, but who is anyone to say what an acceptable level of latency is for anyone else?

Presumably BFD and other sample-based plugins do real-time FX processing, too?

But the latency and performance are not the point. The fact that it actually crashes (in stand alone and as a plugin) at the lowest latency is the problem.

gmontano · Post by **gmontano** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:11 pm

Uncle E wrote:
MickGael wrote:"Use a higher latency" is an entirely unacceptable response.
In this case, it may be acceptable, at least if they're not saying larger than 128 samples. That's an acceptable amount of latency. SampleTank 3 has real-time T-RackS processing going on, it's going to need more processing power to work at lower latencies.

With that said, IK should probably post minimum system requirements for working at different latencies.

It doesn't seem to be a CPU, Tracks issue as it crashes with all effects turned off. My CPU doesn't go into a 100% tailspin with ST3. It smells like a bug of some sorts, because the sound gets distorted without the CPU maxing out.

If I was just using ST3, I could deal with 96-128 potentially. Issue is that I bounce from tracking to drums, to keyboard parts to guitar parts and back again and I shouldn't need to keep flipping latency settings in between takes. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I can't work without ST3 especially after not using ST 2 for so many years. I was just trying to give it a whirl as I just bought the upgrade and it didn't line up with my (and Micks at least) workflow of using low latency.

If the party line is this doesn't work at low latencies, fine I guess. It is just that no other software has this issue that I know of.

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:31 pm

The limitations of the software are what they are, and it is what it is.

But as gmontano says: it sure smells like a bug. I'd forgotten about the distortion! It's like you can hear the ASIO "in-between latencies" and is mangling the sound.

That said, if it turns out there IS a minimum required latency, it would be egregious for IK to not have mentioned that up front. And it certainly should fail more gracefully than a crash.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:49 pm

Rajah wrote:How about a video for those who do not use Logic? Sounds Great..

Sorry, I don't have Logic, otherwise I'd make it for you.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:50 pm

Bombadil wrote:Where do I get the Logic file?

Here you go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9x2nww58rnkp ... logicx.zip

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:54 pm

MickGael wrote:How can low levels of latency be "excessive"? I promise you: I feel the different at 128 samples on my RME.

Try 96, that is at the most only 2ms more total latency than 48.

Peter - IK Multimedia · Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:59 pm

Yes, we posted that demo that Derrick did on our SoundCloud and were discussing different ways to utilize the Logic file in the future (remix contest? something similar) but I guess it is already out in the wild...

https://soundcloud.com/ikmultimedia/st3revealed

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:00 pm

gmontano wrote:I like as low as i can when playing my electronic drums. I used to use 32 samples with my RME PCIe.

It's generally accepted that latency under 10ms is considered realtime. You're probably not gaining a thing by working at 32 samples. When you're working at 44.1, 128 samples is already under 10ms latency.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:02 pm

MickGael wrote:System requirements is one thing, but who is anyone to say what an acceptable level of latency is for anyone else?

That's what generally accepted practices are for.

Presumably BFD and other sample-based plugins do real-time FX processing, too?

We don't know if they're at the same quality levels as the ones in SampleTank 3.

But the latency and performance are not the point. The fact that it actually crashes (in stand alone and as a plugin) at the lowest latency is the problem.

It's directly related. If your computer isn't fast enough to process at the speed you're requesting it to, it may crash.

IKM SampleTank 3 (ST3) Now Available