Satin 1.2 Released (rev 2577)

[u-he-michael]

EDIT - So this is crashing Cubase 7.5 on Windows. Is there an old version I can roll back?

Works great, I had an install issues and an old version causing the conflict. Very snappy load times now

We fixed the issue.
Cheers,
Michael

[core]

Hehe, thanks. Well, it's not a funny video per se this time but it certainly has the geek factor you'd expct from us

Great song
The ascii art is lovely too, real nice video!

[Urs]

Hehe, thanks. Well, it's not a funny video per se this time but it certainly has the geek factor you'd expct from us

Great song
The ascii art is lovely too, real nice video!

Thanks

[EnochLight]

First of all - congrats on the Satin update! Second, congrats on the video and song - your wife sounds fantastic!

Finally... is there any chance we can see a Rack Extension of Satin now?

[Spitfire31]

Very cool video! I love that two-dimensional style (of the images, y'understand…).

Kind regards,

Joachim

[Urs]

First of all - congrats on the Satin update! Second, congrats on the video and song - your wife sounds fantastic!

Thanks

Finally... is there any chance we can see a Rack Extension of Satin now?

We'll see. It's basically all there, but it crashed last time we tried. I'm not sure how much more effort is needed to make it work. My current priority is Bazille though until it is released. Some time thereafter I'll try to get a Rack Extension development workflow back up and running.

[Blipper]

I have been using Satin rev 2352, and today I updated to rev 2577. I found a regression in Delay Mode. Where Satin 1.0-1.1 (including rev 2352) has 0.5% resolution on the Mix control, Satin 1.2 has only 1%. I have separate presets for 1.0% and 1.5%, and now they both act the same. On some mixes, I find that 3.5dB change important. Since the 0.5% setting is no longer available, this means that the available range is reduced by 6dB.

Since I am usually using the Mix control in 0.5-8% range, I already found the 0.5% steps too large. What I would really like is to have the Mix control expressed in dB. Let's say a -70 to 0dB range, with 1dB steps. To provide backwards compatibility for Satin 1.0-1.1 owners, you could automatically translate the old percent values from projects and presets into dB, or provide a right-click option on the Mix control to express in dB units.

Since this Satin 1.2 regression significantly changes the sound of my existing projects, I want to revert to rev 2352. How do I do that? I saved my C:\Users\<account>\AppData\Roaming\u-he\Satin.data\ folder from rev 2352. If I restore my Satin.data, can I simply over-install rev 2352, or should I uninstall?

[sascha]

Can't you just do shift + mouse? That would enable fine tuning.

[mabian]

Uhm, AFAIK he says two presets are sounding the same even if they had different delay settings, so it seems knob value is quantized on load or so...

- Mario

[sascha]

There were no changes to param ranges. Only the display changed, so quantization is only a visual aspect. Using shift + wheel still allows for 'in-between' values, although the display doesn't care and will snap to nearest.

[Blipper]

I have two Delay-Mode presets that are the same in all settings, except that one has a Mix setting of 1.0%, and the other has a Mix setting of 1.5%. I have not listened to them to see if they sound different, but it really bothers me that such a significant sound difference displays the same in Satin 1.2. When I am not using presets, it interferes with my work flow when I have no visual indication of shift-wheel changes. Especially since my mouse requires an unclear amount of wheel rotation to increment/decrement this setting.

I would consider the Satin 1.2 regression solved by quantizing the Mix setting display to 0.5% (like Satin 1.0-1.1). My enhancement request is to provide a way of controlling and displaying the Mix setting in dB with 1-dB resolution.

By the way, I noticed that Satin 1.2 is significantly improved in sound quality in my projects that use Satin in Studio Mode. Kudos to Sascha and others in the u-he team that care so much about sound quality.

[sascha]

Howard and me were discussing the case today, and my proposal was to make the display turn into sort of a 'fine-tune' mode once the shift key gets pressed while mousing a control. This still makes it easy to read in normal (integer) mode (like 71:29) and turn into 71.24:28.76 in 'fine tune' mode. This still needs to be implemented into our framework, though.
We'll collect more ideas over the week here. For the moment, just be assured that we haven't changed anything on the parameter resolution, it's just a display thing. If your host can show the VST parameter list, look for #43: 'Satin: Mix'. It will still go from 0 to 100, and the resolution is as fine as the host's parameter dialog allows.

[Blipper]

@Sascha: I agree that 0.01% resolution would be better than today's 0.5% resolution, and that your proposal would achieve backwards compatibility. The advantage to the dB display is that it would eliminate the need for 'fine-tune' mode, which would provide a faster work flow. In other words, constant dB increments would behave logarithmically like the human ear, and there is no need to change the resolution to work around problems with the linear scale at the low end of the range. I propose that dB increments would be easier to adjust by ear since the perceived increments are the same across the whole range. It is the same reason why many other Satin settings are in dB. My external DAC with headphone amplifier has 0.5-dB steps, and I find that to be sufficient resolution.

[sascha]

Ok, I see your point, which is probably easy to implement. So, you'd be fine with, say, '-20 : -0.92dB' instead of '10 : 90'? Just to clarify: this doesn't mean we change the scaling of the knob; it would still be linear.

[EvilDragon]

I think I'm personally more leaning to values in percent rather than dB (10 : 90)...