Bitwig

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:39 pm

The Live Vs. Studio mode came up a lot in Ableton discussions as well. The devices do need to be running, but silent, when turned off so that they can come on instantly when activated and sound correct at the right timing. Not only that, but the on/off switches are automation-friendly, so they have to be running, just aurally bypassed.

However I do only use Live & Bitwig in the studio, for sound design, composition, etc. I would have loved a "studio" mode for Live, and the same for Bitwig (considering it's super heavy CPU usage). I don't mind a pause or hiccup when turning things off / performing other activities if it meant reduced CPU usage. Although, it might need to be a separate toggle for devices since the bypass button still needs to be automation-friendly, even in a so-called "studio" mode.

gabrielefx · Post by **gabrielefx** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:46 pm

I'm using now 4 instances of Diva tracks, 1 Zebra, 1 Maschine 2, 1 Synthmaster, 5 dynamics plugins, 5-6 eqs, 1 reverb....I've saturated the cpu. Only one track has chords of 3 notes.
The DSP meter is like a vu-meter, pump within the compressors.
Probably we need 2 x 12 cores Xeons to run Bitwig ad some plugs in Mac osx.

I have the latest Mac book Pro.

I will run the same stuff with Ableton and Logic to see what happens.

If Bitwig is really written in Java Script then it can run on a web browser and iPad too
I don't think that Java can handle digital audio better than C++...

regards

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:55 pm

JavaScript is not the same as Java. Bitwig's cross-platform wrapper is written in Java and is (probably) pretty light. The scripting API for controllers is JavaScript, but Bitwig itself is most certainly not written in JavaScript.

It seems like the CPU usage meter "stays around" sometimes when you delete things, or for strange voodoo reasons, so I'm still hoping that the high CPU usage is just a series of related (or unrelated) bugs and not fundamental to the architecture of the program. Hoping!

abique · Post by **abique** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:03 pm

Gabrielefx, as a workaround you can still put Diva in draft mode

Lesha · Post by **Lesha** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:15 pm

I guess CPU usage is still the same?
No improvements yet?

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:17 pm

do not forget to activate multicore in Diva. This will give you some more headroom as well.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:06 pm

I recently did a test with the same heavy sound in Diva in both BWS and Live 9. 8 Tracks with an instance of Diva each. My 6 core i7 @ 4.1 Ghz could play exactly the same number of notes in both DAWs before it started to crackle. With 5 simultaneous notes on all instances it was fine, with 6 it started to have slight issues in Live as well as in BWS.
So for me the difference in performance isn't happening that other people seem to see.

Another professional user ("askewed") is doing mixes with 150 tracks in BWS...

I'd say it's just fine?

Cheers,

Tom

lehtiniemi · Post by **lehtiniemi** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:39 pm

I have a Mac Mini and Bitwig starts to crackle really quickly in my use - especially when there's movement on the screen (like follow playhead activated). I send a couple of mails to the support and they thought it's the graphics power that runs out. It certainly seems so that Bitwig requires more from the display driver than Live, for some reason. It can run just fine but immediately when the scrolling starts (or drawing a new clip, like when recording), I get much more crackling. I DO have a 30" display, so there's a huge difference in crackling when I use Bitwig full screen or just a smaller window.

I don't know what specs the others have, but this is one problem I've had that's inferior to Live, at least at the moment. Workarounds include switching to MIX view while recording or using a smaller window size. Sucks, but...

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:56 pm

Yeah, makes sense. I have a 30" + a 24" monitor and don't see such issues, but I'm running a good graphics card (GeForce GTX660TI) that can handle the load. I guess some reports from laptop users could be founded in the same issue. All parts of the machine have to keep up....
Will be interesting to see what can be done on this front in the longer run.

Cheers,

Tom

Lesha · Post by **Lesha** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:36 pm

I'll be switching from my Radeon HD 6570 to nVidia GTX 650 pretty soon, and see if there is any noticeable difference.

Still, my test per single channel gives similar results compared to previous time I ran it:
Bitwig - 20 Slick EQ instances
Ableton - 31 Slick EQ instance

That is 47.6 % more plugin instances in Ableton Live compared to Bitwig Studio.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:10 pm

So that would be single thread performance - I'll have to check that out here.
Any specific settings/preset to use in the EQ?
Are you running an audio track through it or are the EQs just sitting there?

If we can nail down specifics it will be much easier to reproduce and hopefully fix.

Cheers,

Tom

Lesha · Post by **Lesha** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:18 pm

Just a loop without streching (raw) and the Slick EQ default preset.

I have also tried putting a loop (with no stretching) with a Slick EQ on each track separately, so I could utilize every core equally.
I have managed to run 63 in Bitwig, and 103 tracks in Ableton.

That is 63.5 % better result for Ableton, compared to Bitwig as a reference.

askewd · Post by **askewd** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:26 pm

Another professional user ("askewd") is doing mixes with 150 tracks in BWS...

Yes and the most recent version seems best yet in terms if how much I can run without crackels.

Saying this however, I would add that I have developed a slightly new mentality when mixing in BW. I tend to be much more selective with my plugins...and I use a lot more of the of the native plugs than I did in logic. (although still a few VERY heavy plugs especially nebula) so I've kind of streamlined my excessive plugin gluttony bad habits and become much more efficient. When using Synths I also seem to be bouncing in place more often too.

However I would say that this new streamlined, more disciplined, mentality has had a great effect on the music itself. I'm making better choices and I think my BW mixes are the best I've ever got. I'm mixing a very well know "A-list" artist with it right now

I haven't tested recently but I imagine that when I do logic will still out perform bitwig... But what I have realised is that that's absolutely no reason for not being able to make good music!!

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:56 pm

Ok, tested it here:

Ableton Live 9: 34 instances of Slick EQ on a single track with the Smile Preset (makes no sense IMO to run plugins that don't do anything) running an audio drum loop through it. 48 kHz. 128 samples.
Bitwig Studio: 32 Instances.
Both apps running fullscreen on a 30" monitor.

Not anything significant in my book and far from the numbers you guys are seeing.

So what's the difference I wonder?

@askewed: Thanks for the insights. That sounds actually awesome as a concept and similar to experiences I had.

Cheers,

Tom

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:03 pm

I've done a bunch of CPU tests as well, in the manner of duplicating a track with plug-ins until failure. I usually saw about 30% more available power in Ableton than Bitwig. Unfortunate as I already thought Ableton's top CPU threshold was not so great compared to other sequencers.

But the thing that really aggravates the situation is that there is no way to turn off a plug-in in Bitwig and prevent it from consuming cpu. Yes it's great to have a mute button so it's already running if you want to automate. But you need an OFF button like it works in Ableton. That's DAW basics isn't it?

Bitwig

KVR Audio

CPU usage is ridiculous