New Synth Teaser Vid

[pdxindy]

And how is the supersaw in Diva better than Zebra's?

The phase relationships between the layered saw waves has a huge influence on the sound. U-he nailed it with Diva for that smooth silky sound.

Eleven mode in Zebra is also more complicated cause it is not just saw waves but any wave that gets layered. But as far as the supersaw sound specifically, eleven mode was like the first attempt. It's good, for sure, but U-he could do it better now... also, it may be that 7 or 9 would be better than 11... I'm not an expert on the subject but that is what my ears hear.

If you want to explore it a bit, it is easy in Bazille. Wire the 4 Osc's (set to saw) through a multiple and play with the phase of each osc to hear how much the sound changes.

[Cyforce]

And how is the supersaw in Diva better than Zebra's?

The phase relationships between the layered saw waves has a huge influence on the sound. U-he nailed it with Diva for that smooth silky sound.

Eleven mode in Zebra is also more complicated cause it is not just saw waves but any wave that gets layered. But as far as the supersaw sound specifically, eleven mode was like the first attempt. It's good, for sure, but U-he could do it better now... also, it may be that 7 or 9 would be better than 11... I'm not an expert on the subject but that is what my ears hear.

If you want to explore it a bit, it is easy in Bazille. Wire the 4 Osc's (set to saw) through a multiple and play with the phase of each osc to hear how much the sound changes.

Aren`t the phase relationsips of the supersaw (original JP8000/JP8080) not in a "real" relationship, and more random?

[Urs]

I think it's about how they are detuned. I've spent a lot of time studying this during my weekends.

[Cyforce]

Adam Szabo did his bachelor about this:
http://www.nada.kth.se/utbildning/grukt ... _10131.pdf

Very helpful i think. Random Phases, the correct Mix & Detune curves+amount. His JP6K VSTi is based on that so far as i know, and is really close on the original.

[knowix]

I would kind of suggest to Urs that he gets lots of feedback from dance music people, as he's putting the finishing touches to this synth. It would be very easy to have it turn out to be neither fish nor fowl - not quite hitting the right spots for commercial dance production, yet too commercial sounding for anything else.

Ultimately the slight sonic differences between all these unison/supersaw synths do have an effect on people's choice to use them. I doubt Sylenth became that highly used entirely because it was easy to crack.

[stardustmedia]

I would kind of suggest to Urs that he gets lots of feedback from dance music people, as he's putting the finishing touches to this synth. It would be very easy to have it turn out to be neither fish nor fowl - not quite hitting the right spots for commercial dance production, yet too commercial sounding for anything else.

Ultimately the slight sonic differences between all these unison/supersaw synths do have an effect on people's choice to use them. I doubt Sylenth became that highly used entirely because it was easy to crack.

And why not from other music genres? Why should he limit himself to dance music?

[pmb_12]

The Hive Instrumentation Swarm plug-in ... AKA T.H.I.S. plug-in?

We were thinking of using doesthispluginexist.com to post the video...

Btw. on my system, 16 voices x 32 supersaws + 2 stereo filters:

Hive: 22%
the other synth: 27%

That's without FX or anything, just plain voice architecture. Not sure if I can squeeze any more out of it. Haven't coded the "analogue" filter mode though

what's the "other" synth? diva?

[aMUSEd]

Silence ith golden

[Nielzie]

Silence ith golden

[pdxindy]

Adam Szabo did his bachelor about this:
http://www.nada.kth.se/utbildning/grukt ... _10131.pdf

Very helpful i think. Random Phases, the correct Mix & Detune curves+amount. His JP6K VSTi is based on that so far as i know, and is really close on the original.

Thanks for the correction...

[fourthmanfire]

I know this may be getting off-topic a bit, but what "tricks" does 3ee speak of that are necessary to get Zebra's superwaves to sound good? What are my ears missing?

And how is the supersaw in Diva better than Zebra's?

Here's a Zebra patch with 3 different examples of Zebra superwaves, progressively better from left to right.
Just solo each lane and have a play. the last one is a true stereo superwave sounding noticeably better! (whatever you do, don't turn off the VCF filter there or turn down volume! )

https://app.box.com/s/t7vxbuozjh2ru01b2dcx

The supersaw in Diva is a different design mimicking the original supersaw from JP8000.
it's newer and different than in Zebra = better

Thanks 3ee. I took a look at the supersaws you provided. I see that in the later ("better") versions you used some OSC FX (Brilliance and Chop Lift), and you also changed the saw wave in the OSC editor. My question to you is this: Is a "better" supersaw wave a subjective thing? Or is there some supersaw quality that is universally liked that synths aspire to (aka JP-8000/8080)? For instance, I HEAR the differences in the waves you posted, but what if I think the "original" sounds better?

And pdxindy, you mention that unison is the whole signal path (inc. filters) stacked...not just the osc waves. I still am not understanding the true difference..could you give an example of a unison and how it is advantageous over non-unison stacked oscillators?

Thanks to everyone - this thread has been most educational to me. I apologize if it seems I'm hijacking the Hive thread

[chk071]

I would kind of suggest to Urs that he gets lots of feedback from dance music people, as he's putting the finishing touches to this synth. It would be very easy to have it turn out to be neither fish nor fowl - not quite hitting the right spots for commercial dance production, yet too commercial sounding for anything else.

Ultimately the slight sonic differences between all these unison/supersaw synths do have an effect on people's choice to use them. I doubt Sylenth became that highly used entirely because it was easy to crack.

+1

Even though i'm sure they analyzed "that other plugin" well enough to hit the spot (and of course refrain from just copying it).

And why not from other music genres? Why should he limit himself to dance music?

Of course you will be able to make music from every other genre with this too, but 1. the purpose of this synth, as far as i read, will be to keep it simple, to keep it efficient, and it has teh supersaw, so it will be kind of predestined for EDM music and 2. it is very wise to serve that market, because it will sell well, if you do so. Also i think it is a very good idea to fill the gap Sylenth left behind due to lack of development/64-bit AU version.

[pdxindy]

I would kind of suggest to Urs that he gets lots of feedback from dance music people, as he's putting the finishing touches to this synth. It would be very easy to have it turn out to be neither fish nor fowl - not quite hitting the right spots for commercial dance production, yet too commercial sounding for anything else.

Ultimately the slight sonic differences between all these unison/supersaw synths do have an effect on people's choice to use them. I doubt Sylenth became that highly used entirely because it was easy to crack.

And why not from other music genres? Why should he limit himself to dance music?

With Ace, Bazille, Diva and Zebra in the stable, U-he is not limited to dance music!

[ho66it]

And pdxindy, you mention that unison is the whole signal path (inc. filters) stacked...not just the osc waves. I still am not understanding the true difference..could you give an example of a unison and how it is advantageous over non-unison stacked oscillators?

I'll try:
In a polyphonic synth, each note you play is assigned to a 'voice'. Each voice can be considered as a monophonic synth. so each new note you play is a new 'voice' up to the polyphony limit. After the limit, 'voices' are reassigned to new notes.
Unison consists of playing the synth in monophonic mode and stacking the voices on a single note, resulting in a 'bigger' or 'richer' sound. In addition, the individual voices that are stacked can be detuned from each other providing even more 'richness' or 'fullness'.
I hope this helps

[aMUSEd]

I would kind of suggest to Urs that he gets lots of feedback from dance music people, as he's putting the finishing touches to this synth. It would be very easy to have it turn out to be neither fish nor fowl - not quite hitting the right spots for commercial dance production, yet too commercial sounding for anything else.

Ultimately the slight sonic differences between all these unison/supersaw synths do have an effect on people's choice to use them. I doubt Sylenth became that highly used entirely because it was easy to crack.

And why not from other music genres? Why should he limit himself to dance music?

With Ace, Bazille, Diva and Zebra in the stable, U-he is not limited to dance music!

Yeah but they really need to work harder to crack the Ambient death polka market. I would suggest getting market feedback from ambient dead polkarisers.