Filter order idea

[bastien]

There seem to be a few arpeggiator type plugins appearing nowdays. I think it would be good if you could insert them just after the midi input before the track on the left, rather than after on the right, so you can record their output.

That's all!

[Gwydi]

You can do this using virtual midi ports (eg, midi yoke). Just output the arp data to a virtual midi port and have another track recording that virtual midi port. Works like a charm

G.

[IIRs]

It would be nice to be able to do this within Tracktion however..

I would also like to be able to record the outputs of audio plugs.. ie: record a di'ed guitar part WITH the amp sim, instead of recording dry & rendering later.

[bastien]

Actually I might be asking for something unnecessarily - I think you can probably route the output of one track into another, and record that. I'll have to try it when get home.

[valley]

I think Jules added support for rendering teh MIDI output from MIDI plugs. Can't say I ever tried it though.

Regards placing audio plugs on the left side, why on earth would you want to? The whole point of digital editing is non-destructive manipulation. If you record with the amp sim hardwired in, and then decide you had the levels bad, even if the take was perfect, you've lost your work.

Place the amp sim on the right hand side, and you can vary the settings at any time thus garaunteeing that you wont need to re-record.

When you are truly happy, just bounce the track.

Trust me, there is *no* good reason to place audio effects on the left hand side other than convenience, and the convenience factor is somewhat suspect in itself.

[IIRs]

Trust me, there is *no* good reason to place audio effects on the left hand side other than convenience, and the convenience factor is somewhat suspect in itself.

What's wrong with convenience then? Call it "workflow" maybe?

What if your amp sim is just for a guide part while you write the music, because you always mic up a valve amp for the real thing?

Why should I be forced to record it dry & then wait to render when all I want is to get my ideas down while they're hot?

[valley]

What's wrong with convenience then? Call it "workflow" maybe?

Convenience is good, but convenience that typically can turn round and bite you on the arse is less good.

What if your amp sim is just for a guide part while you write the music, because you always mic up a valve amp for the real thing?

Why should I be forced to record it dry & then wait to render when all I want is to get my ideas down while they're hot?

Unless the amp sim is a real bastard of a CPU hog though, why would you even need to render in that case? (And if it is that bad a CPU hog, and you are really only using it as a scratch pad, then you need a lighter weight amp sim).

Whilst for a very narrow set of possibilities, it could be useful, IMHO it really isn't a good thing to encourage people to do. In this day and age there is less need for destructive editing, and as such, I still say it should be kept as a last resort.

[AD80]

I think Jules added support for rendering teh MIDI output from MIDI plugs. Can't say I ever tried it though.

I've tryed it. It works perfectly. The clip will automatically show up in the "project" tab afterwards too (if you choose it as the render forlder). But you have to make sure you dissable all the plug-ins except for the midi one. I've tryed it with EXT and Mchord, and some others probably. It works.

[IIRs]

Whilst for a very narrow set of possibilities, it could be useful

I make fairly heavy use of my Nord Micro-Modular h/w synth: as it is strictly monotimbral this means lots of bounces of synth parts to audio clips. My audio card latency allows me to set up FX plugs in real time.. in other words I usually have the sound & the performance spot on BEFORE I press record!

Don't get me wrong, I agree its not the most important issue atm, but I was surprised by the vehemence of your rebuttal One of the things I like about Tracktion is its flexibility, so you have the freedom to work any way that suits you: I feel this feature (esp if applied to MIDI plugs aswell) would simply expand that concept further.

[valley]

but I was surprised by the vehemence of your rebuttal

I worked for a number of years in tech support, and if that experience has influenced my code development in one way, it is that I don't believe software should make it easy for users to develop bad habits. People are typically lazy, and unlearn good practise very quickly:

I know to back my hard-drive up, but I've never had a disk crash so I never bother. You know as well as I, that I'm going to bleat like lamb faced with mint sauce when it happens to me, but somehow...

I also know that good knife technique is essential when cutting food. Since I hardly ever cut myself though, I don't tend to obey that law. Last night I damn near sliced the end of my thumb off, and today I'm promising myself I'll obey proper practise next time I'm holding a sharp cutting instrument.

Software should do what the user wants, but sometimes it should do what the user needs. I respect that you may fully understand the implications of destructive effects placement, but do you want to be the man explaining to countless other users over the years why "no, they can't remove the compression from that perfect take they just made."

[IIRs]

People are typically lazy,

Typically bloody stupid as well .. I understand you better now

.. but I refuse to dumb down my tools for the sake of the f**kwits out there

[valley]

.. but I refuse to dumb down my tools for the sake of the f**kwits out there