u-he

Kaboom75 · Post by **Kaboom75** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:04 am

Thanks Recursive

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:29 am

ddeez wrote:Just the osc themselves sound much richer and fuller in diva then in zebra.

Nah, there's no magic in oscillators. If you set Zebra's oscillators to "crisp" instead of the IMHO more pleasant sounding "soft" tone you'll get a pretty identical spectrum from a Zebra oscillator vs. a Diva one for any identical waveform.

Diva's oscillators however are detuned rather strongly by default, which in Zebra one has to program. A bit of random Modmapper towards oscillator detune might help.

Everything else - everything - is then related to how the filters distort whatever goes through them, even when they're fully open, and the distortion within the VCA stage that follows. Both of which one can't switch off, which is why one can't hear Diva's oscillators without further processing.

For various reasons this layout of gain staging is nearly impossible to model in a modular environment - because of the way the filters, VCAs and envelopes interact. They need to literally be processed within a single module to work out, which we did in Diva and which is why Diva is what she is. It's her thing and our other synths have other things.

- Urs

ddeez · Post by **ddeez** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:36 am

Urs thanks for the great reply (as always). I think i understand what ur saying. So basically my love for diva is mostly thanks to the filters, and not the osc. Are u saying then with the zebra hz that i own i should be able to get nearly identical results as with diva by using the diva filters on the sound?

Also u keep mentioning crisp mode. I dont see that anywhere in zebra hz. Is that only for zebra 2.7? (I hope not).

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:45 am

ddeez wrote:Urs thanks for the great reply (as always). I think i understand what ur saying. So basically my love for diva is mostly thanks to the filters, and not the osc. Are u saying then with the zebra hz that i own i should be able to get nearly identical results as with diva by using the diva filters on the sound?

Also u keep mentioning crisp mode. I dont see that anywhere in zebra hz. Is that only for zebra 2.7? (I hope not).

Crisp mode is in the bottom Osc tabs on the right hand side.

The main difference between ZebraHZ and Diva is, sonically, in Diva you have feedback and there's VCA distortion that depends on the volume envelope.

With properly set up oscillators in ZebraHZ (right volumes, right amount fo detune) you should however get pretty similar sounds. (but of course no Osc CrossModulation)

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:16 pm

I want to add a word to the defence of Zebra. People claim that Zebra oscillators sound thin and not full.
Zebra oscillators are of very high quality indeed. They just have a neutral sound.
If you hear an oscillator that you like, just remember that all of coloration is from processing: linear (phaseshifting and eq that is phase mangling too) and nonlinear (waveshaping - i. e. distortion). In analog synthesizers this coloration usually "buited" into the scheme because of analog non-ideal nature. But as Zebra is a construct kit, you can built this coloration into the sound too.

Example of colorful sound (I think it is colored enough). All sounds are Zebra (except drums).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57065234/zf.mp3
And sorry for the weird melody - I spent about five minutes to sketch this demo.
Edit: Just decided that sound is too oldschool. Tweaked to a more modern (although I dislike it):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57065234/zfm.mp3

Mace404 · Post by **Mace404** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:51 pm

trance_lucent wrote:Example of colorful sound (I think it is colored enough). All sounds are Zebra (except drums).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57065234/zf.mp3
And sorry for the weird melody - I spent about five minutes to sketch this demo.

I would call it smashed before colorful tbh.

trance_lucent · Post by **trance_lucent** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:45 pm

Mace404 wrote:I would call it smashed before colorful tbh.

Agreed, but is a lemon more yellow or sour?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:45 pm

Urs wrote:
ddeez wrote:Just the osc themselves sound much richer and fuller in diva then in zebra.
Nah, there's no magic in oscillators. If you set Zebra's oscillators to "crisp" instead of the IMHO more pleasant sounding "soft" tone you'll get a pretty identical spectrum from a Zebra oscillator vs. a Diva one for any identical waveform.
- Urs

I sure like the cross modulation and pulse width modulation in Diva... I think there is a little magic there

One of the appealing things about Diva is that it is hard to make a bad preset... One of the appealing things about Zebra is that one is free to make lots of bad presets... hehe

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:05 pm

pdxindy wrote:One of the appealing things about Diva is that it is hard to make a bad preset... One of the appealing things about Zebra is that one is free to make lots of bad presets.

Amen!

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:44 pm

pdxindy wrote:
zvenx wrote:
ddeez wrote:I hope it sounds better then zebra ^
Ouch.. So you know, some of us think zebra is one of the best sounding software synths.
Rsp
That's why if it sounds better then Zebra it'll be rather amazing!

I don't get the Zebra bashing. Sounds great to me... always has. When I started using plug ins it was right around v2's release and it replaced a bunch of 90s era VAs with ease.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:19 pm

Urs wrote:
tehlord wrote:Not sure if it's been asked, but can the LFO's be bipolar?

I miss that from some of the other ones.
Our LFOs are always bipolar. We're going to add a unipolar switch though. One day. Maybe next year.

Unipolar for squarewave modulation! With bipolar squares, if you want to jump between the played note and a fifth with an LFO, for example, or one pulsewidth and another, you have to go to the midpoint and then modulate by half a fifth. Very fiddly

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:27 pm

pdxindy wrote:
ddeez wrote:Howard im not mainly interested in just filters. Im interested in overall quality of sound from every angle of the synth. Just the osc themselves sound much richer and fuller in diva then in zebra. With no extra fx etc. its very obvious to me. When i make the simplest of patches in diva and in zebra, diva sounds head and shoulders above the zebra patches in fullness etc. i'd be interested to know what urs thinks of this. I'd be amazed that u dont hear this difference. I know this isnt a scientific comparison but i think it proves my point: Listen to ur own presets that u created for both synths, the diva ones sound way better. The reason for that is the synth.
Way better to you... because you have a specific criteria that you judge by.

Sure Diva generally sounds 'fuller' than Zebra... but it is your subjective opinion that fuller is intrinsically better. I like Zebra for the way I can make 'thin' sounds that still sound rich. I frequently don't want fuller and am often trying to make Diva thinner and lighter. Lots of real world percussion isn't full sounding for example. Same for lots of plucked sounds.

Zebra... this is a thin, light sound...
http://draigathar.org/sounds/evoltring.mp3

+1 to that. Thin, rich and complex. Zebra beats even Massive for animated sounds. It's the perfect wavetable and abstracts machine by default, and can go thicker and in a million different directions if you know it well.

tedlogan · Post by **tedlogan** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:01 am

Zebra. After neglecting it for a while, I'm now balancing my time more between Bazille and Zebra, and the latter still blows me away. Its comb filter! Combining it with other modules and MSEGs to effortlessly create rich and lush digi-ethno-instruments and sequences, all animated wonderfully, never ceases to amaze me. Lots more of course, but that's my favourite use for it.

The simple but hugely powerful performance XY panels is the huge juicy cherry on top...

PS - please give Bazille this XY performance power too, and actually all other synths by default. It will not detract from any of their respective core ideas/purposes/aural aesthetics, nor will it convolute what they're about. XY performance panels should be mandatory on all synths

supernova · Post by **supernova** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:25 am

I am looking forward very much to the Hive.
u-he products to me are some of the best. They sound excellent and offer a vast depth of sound design possibilities and control. The Hive will differ from that apparently by not offering as much sound design possibilities but then it's a different concept that doesn't aim to be the solution to all problems and knowing that u-he's products so far were all excellent I think one can conclude that they know what they're doing

so one may think it's rather pointless to criticize the lack of features of a product (especially by u-he) that is still in the pipelines without even having audio-demos

but then again what else to talk about in a forum before the release of a product?

One question for u-he: To me the JP-80x0 features an unparalleled supersaw that was tried to be "copied" by many but quality-wise (subjectively) they all sounded plain, sterile and boring (until the Diva got inspired by it

maybe one day you'll consider getting inspired from a certain infectious synth as well *wish*

) because their oscillators probably were just multiple detuned, rather perfect saws whereas the JP-80x0 does some magic to it that is hard to describe in words and even harder to pinpoint what it actually is. The EQ then does some additional magic to it that to me sounds like more than just an ordinary shelf-EQ. Now the question: Will the Hive do some sonic "magic" to the supersaw, or in other words, will it have a distinctive character?

u-he

KVR Audio

U-HE Hive