KVR Audio

johnnybe · Post by **johnnybe** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:35 pm

While I do like the sound of this synth, I have to say Im disappointed that so many parameters cannot be automated in any daw, like BPM, Sub Octave, Loads of different switches etc. The amount of hidden parameters is nearly as bad as the Arturia plugins (and they are bad)

I can understand some of the LFO parameters, or wavetable editing parameters might be difficult to automate (although the LFO ones should be pretty easy). However, there are parameters on the LFO, such as switching BPM that should be easy to automate, and are simply not automatable. You cant even automate these through midi (learn).

It never ceases to amaze me why developers would hide these parameters from a DAW. Surely they would want their synth to be as usable as possible, across as many different DAW's'/Controllers as possible. How are people supposed to control this synth using a controller such as PUSH, or Maschine, or a touchscreen controller?

Totally bemused!

hollo · Post by **hollo** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:21 am

It's easy to automate LFO parameters, i am using the Makro for example to change
LFO Speed (BPM). Makro Midi learn is easy: right click and move your controller.

Here is an example for changing speed with controllers from one of my WARMED soundset demo:

https://soundcloud.com/hollosound/hollo ... l_pearlpad
Listen the sustained pad animation and not the attack phase of the sound.

Cheers,

Joseph

jc_vt · Post by **jc_vt** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:09 am

Not really hidden...Live can get to them

johnnybe wrote:While I do like the sound of this synth, I have to say Im disappointed that so many parameters cannot be automated in any daw, like BPM, Sub Octave, Loads of different switches etc. The amount of hidden parameters is nearly as bad as the Arturia plugins (and they are bad)

I can understand some of the LFO parameters, or wavetable editing parameters might be difficult to automate (although the LFO ones should be pretty easy). However, there are parameters on the LFO, such as switching BPM that should be easy to automate, and are simply not automatable. You cant even automate these through midi (learn).

It never ceases to amaze me why developers would hide these parameters from a DAW. Surely they would want their synth to be as usable as possible, across as many different DAW's'/Controllers as possible. How are people supposed to control this synth using a controller such as PUSH, or Maschine, or a touchscreen controller?

Totally bemused!

Greg Houston · Post by **Greg Houston** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:20 am

LFO BPM and Sub Octave, the two things you listed work with MIDI learn in Cubase 7.5.

johnnybe · Post by **johnnybe** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:04 am

This is not true. Live or any daw cannot control the "BPM" parameter of the LFO.

Try clicking "configure" in ableton live, then click the BPM parameter. Nothing happens. Try moving the "rise" or "delay" dials of the LFO. Nothing happens.

These are hidden controls and cannot be automated inside of Ableton Live or any other DAW.

johnnybe · Post by **johnnybe** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:07 am

hollo wrote:It's easy to automate LFO parameters, i am using the Makro for example to change
LFO Speed (BPM). Makro Midi learn is easy: right click and move your controller.

Here is an example for changing speed with controllers from one of my WARMED soundset demo:

https://soundcloud.com/hollosound/hollo ... l_pearlpad
Listen the sustained pad animation and not the attack phase of the sound.

Cheers,
Joseph

Hey hollo, not macros, DAW automation. Although you cannot automate the BPM button even with a Macro

Greg Houston · Post by **Greg Houston** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:26 am

johnnybe wrote:This is not true. Live or any daw cannot control the "BPM" parameter of the LFO.

Ah, you are referring to the toggle and not the rate. Yeah, the toggle does not seem to be automatable.

Interesting that LFO smooth is externally automatable, but you can't apply an LFO to it internally. I was wanting to do this a couple days ago since it has such a strong effect on the kick tone in a drum sequence I made and was hoping to modulate it.

jc_vt · Post by **jc_vt** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:59 pm

I stand corrected. Live can automate about 50 parameters in Serum, just not those.

johnnybe wrote:This is not true. Live or any daw cannot control the "BPM" parameter of the LFO.

Try clicking "configure" in ableton live, then click the BPM parameter. Nothing happens. Try moving the "rise" or "delay" dials of the LFO. Nothing happens.

These are hidden controls and cannot be automated inside of Ableton Live or any other DAW.

bitcrusher · Post by **bitcrusher** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:12 pm

I stand corrected. Live can automate about 50 parameters in Serum, just not those.

Actually Live (all hosts AFAIK) can automate 259 different parameters in Serum (in Live you are restricted to 128 parameters at a time if I'm not mistaken, but you can configure which 128 params you wish to control).

Indeed not the BPM switch for the LFO's. I didn't see a need to make than an automation parameter exposed to the host. However the switches that I could imagine wanting to automate are exposed as automation parameters, including OSC enables, filter routing switches, FX enables).

Steve
Serum | Xfer Records

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:26 pm

I would prefer to be able to automate the buttons as well as more of the knobs - I think the problem is you are thinking in terms of what is useful to automate in a host but forgetting that some controllers also use automation (not midi learn) to map controls (Kore and Maschine for example, also Live's Macros work this way, and by extension, Push) but making those params non automatable also means they are not mappable.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:03 pm

Speaking of...I've done some further refinement of the Kore 2 template for Serum:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/564 ... mplate.ksd

all automatable params are mapped to Kore knobs and buttons - just a shame that things like LFO rise and delay can't be mapped but hopefully that will come (not to mention bpi, LFO mode etc)

Kain · Post by **Kain** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:01 am

Finally downloading those Serum presets that PatchAdamz made and I ordered over at vintagesynthpads for a very cheap introductory price.

Really curious how many presets I am going to like! Filesize is over 500MB, must be the custom wavetables that make these presets so big in filesize.

johnnybe · Post by **johnnybe** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:55 am

bitcrusher wrote:
I stand corrected. Live can automate about 50 parameters in Serum, just not those.
Actually Live (all hosts AFAIK) can automate 259 different parameters in Serum (in Live you are restricted to 128 parameters at a time if I'm not mistaken, but you can configure which 128 params you wish to control).

Indeed not the BPM switch for the LFO's. I didn't see a need to make than an automation parameter exposed to the host. However the switches that I could imagine wanting to automate are exposed as automation parameters, including OSC enables, filter routing switches, FX enables).

Steve
Serum | Xfer Records

Such as shame. Massive suffered from the same problem. Can't even use the switch buttons either to change waveform (I can understand why the waveforms menu might be difficult because users will add their own ones). When I use Lemur or a midi controller, I map all these parameters, and I cant switch bpm and many others. Would be so amazing if more parameters were available to the host, even if they arent needed by most people.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:00 am

I didn't see a need to make than an automation parameter exposed to the host.

I didn't see it either until I tried to make wobble bass. Switching LFO speed is very common technique.

What I also miss in Serum (that could be replacement for old Vanguard) are dotted/triplet values for LFO and delay speed. These are rather trivial to implement and really are important for basslines.

Greg Houston · Post by **Greg Houston** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:19 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:I didn't see it either until I tried to make wobble bass. Switching LFO speed is very common technique.

What I also miss in Serum (that could be replacement for old Vanguard) are dotted/triplet values for LFO and delay speed. These are rather trivial to implement and really are important for basslines.

You can most certainly automate the LFO rate. What you can't do (at this time) is automate the toggle that switches from BPM to Hz. I didn't grasp why anyone would ever automate that particular control anyway, until aMUSEd explained the desire to simply be able to map the control.

LFO speed has dotted and triplet values available though you cannot automate from a dotted to a triplet or vice versa.

I'm not sure which delay you are referring to. The LFO delay indeed does not have dotted or triplet values. The FX delay does however. Granted they aren't immediately obvious on the UI since they are hidden in the delay offset.

Official Serum thread!