A rise of "Page 22" (post by Jan) rubbish in the Cafe?

[RunBeerRun]

<-this one looks like a Cabbage Patch Kid.

[Zombie Queen]

Maybe to get some focus of what we are talking about: here's example of modern EDM track.

IMO this is not very different from any 'electronic dance' music from past 20 years or so. Whatever it is being called nowadays, used to be called techno, acid, house, italo disco, whatever the popular term was... The point of this music is not to attract music enthusiast, it is something simple and rhythmical, so everyone can nod around, and just bland enough to not to scare off anyone. You know, modern march music. This one has breaks and buildups, not so bad, I see progress here.

[DSmolken]

Nowadays, if a kid likes Martin Garrixx, Calvin Harris, Avicii or any of those guys, all they need to do is go on Youtube and watch a few videos - open Garageband, visit some forums, find out what samplepacks and synth settings were being used, and they can make a track sounding just like some of those other guys - vastly simplified argument but you get the idea.

If they want to share their stuff, get some feedback, or just revel in the "hey I did something!" feeling, they're not going to post it at Neowin, DeviantArt or MoneySavingExpert.com....I hope. They're going to head for one of the biggest communities of "electronic" musicians on the net that they can find (you decide if it's KVR, not saying it is).

True enough. So, what would be a better place to post my next track instead of here? It's in the general area of Calvin Harris or Cascada.

[mcnelson]

Nowadays, if a kid likes Martin Garrixx, Calvin Harris, Avicii or any of those guys, all they need to do is go on Youtube and watch a few videos - open Garageband, visit some forums, find out what samplepacks and synth settings were being used, and they can make a track sounding just like some of those other guys - vastly simplified argument but you get the idea.

If they want to share their stuff, get some feedback, or just revel in the "hey I did something!" feeling, they're not going to post it at Neowin, DeviantArt or MoneySavingExpert.com....I hope. They're going to head for one of the biggest communities of "electronic" musicians on the net that they can find (you decide if it's KVR, not saying it is).

True enough. So, what would be a better place to post my next track instead of here? It's in the general area of Calvin Harris or Cascada.

Post it wherever you like, it's really not my concern; it's your art and you have the freedom to do whatever you like with it.

I guess the roundabout point I was failing to make is that everyone starts somewhere....to labour the comparison, the kid who liked Metallica would've had to get their mate around to show off their chops. Nowadays there are a multitude of options - and communities - available to do the same. I'd hope that KVR is welcoming and inclusive to those people who'd like to showcase their work and get some feedback.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Feel free to post your music and have it slagged, if I can be bothered to listen to it

I believe there are better forums if you need mutual back slapping and wankery

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Post it in kvr if u want. It's not a bad place to get some feedback - especially on the technical side of things if that's what your hoping to get.

I think most people just don't comment if they don't hear anything they like in it.

If they offer some constructive criticism (hell, even non-constructive criticism can do you some good sometimes) then you've potentially gained something - an alternative viewpoint to ponder on and take to heart or discard as u see fit.

It's sometimes hard to talk about your own work but I for one like it when people do, even if I disagree. It's worth doing. I've got more out of people talking about their own stuff than people talking about others to be honest. That can take some bravery or self-confidence, and even a certain amount of arrogance or elitism. I might not share that, but it's valuable (or the fruits of it) all the same - and welcome, to me least.

[RunBeerRun]

I always comment when I hear something, but most are on Soundcloud, which is streaming(my connection won't be fast enough for a few days yet), the downloads on SC are large-sized wav's, which is not cool.

Any internet "upgrade" usually makes it worse.

[jancivil]

so what is considered not rubbish on KVR? Does it have to be stuff no one else likes or what?

I know you are joking, but you're closer than you think!

I think this statement has no reality at all. Is it a comment on, or does it follow jonsolo's strawman, the person that makes music only they appreciate?
Who is 'KVR'? Is the group all one and the same guy? Can there never be rubbish in one person's view? Nolan and I come from pretty different places and I think I know pretty much what he referred to, though.

Please no more of the strawman thing. I don't see anything strawman about it at all. I see it as a difference of opinion.

Jan, you generally are a pretty smart cookie and clearly have more technical skills than I, but you DO seem like you are looking for a fight in these types of threads.

You're going to modify my behavior are you? Which person here makes music only they will ever appreciate? When you can show me that thejonsolo was directing that remark to that person or those persons, you have shown me it's no strawman argument. I feel confident it is. "Does it have to be stuff no one else likes" is, equally.

I think that argument is clear. I like to argue, sue me.

[jancivil]

I believe there are better forums if you need mutual back slapping and wankery

I think most people just don't comment if they don't hear anything they like in it.

Yeah, Soundcloud has people posting things a million other people have done something virtually identical to and everyone's on not only the same page but the same paragraph/same sentence/same word and it's all 'This is awesome!' all the time. So if you're going to emulate avicii or Martin Garrix, there you are.

Here, people are involved in their own thing and I think don't bother commenting on what they aren't moved by and it isn't usually competitive dissing either.
And I THINK there are a lot of people posting and a lot of 'turnover' these days.

[trimph1]

so what is considered not rubbish on KVR? Does it have to be stuff no one else likes or what?

I know you are joking, but you're closer than you think!

I think this statement has no reality at all. Is it a comment on, or does it follow jonsolo's strawman, the person that makes music only they appreciate?
Who is 'KVR'? Is the group all one and the same guy? Can there never be rubbish in one person's view? Nolan and I come from pretty different places and I think I know pretty much what he referred to, though.

Please no more of the strawman thing. I don't see anything strawman about it at all. I see it as a difference of opinion.

Jan, you generally are a pretty smart cookie and clearly have more technical skills than I, but you DO seem like you are looking for a fight in these types of threads.

You're going to modify my behavior are you? Which person here makes music only they will ever appreciate? When you can show me that thejonsolo was directing that remark to that person or those persons, you have shown me it's no strawman argument. I feel confident it is. "Does it have to be stuff no one else likes" is, equally.

I think that argument is clear. I like to argue, sue me.

Hey!!! I resemble that remark about me making music only I would appreciate!!!

Why you....

[ghettosynth]

Nowadays, if a kid likes Martin Garrixx, Calvin Harris, Avicii or any of those guys, all they need to do is go on Youtube and watch a few videos - open Garageband, visit some forums, find out what samplepacks and synth settings were being used, and they can make a track sounding just like some of those other guys - vastly simplified argument but you get the idea.

If they want to share their stuff, get some feedback, or just revel in the "hey I did something!" feeling, they're not going to post it at Neowin, DeviantArt or MoneySavingExpert.com....I hope. They're going to head for one of the biggest communities of "electronic" musicians on the net that they can find (you decide if it's KVR, not saying it is).

True enough. So, what would be a better place to post my next track instead of here? It's in the general area of Calvin Harris or Cascada.

You don't know? IMNSHO, that's really a core part of the problem. By problem, I simply mean KVR's problem, I'm not trying to make a grand statement. I'll just come flat out and tell you, I think I've actually said something like this before, to you even, it's not KVR. KVR is not really EDM centric in any sense of the meaning of EDM. You're not reaching YOUR audience by posting your music here.

[Tricky-Loops]

Double post...

[Tricky-Loops]

Maybe to get some focus of what we are talking about: here's example of modern EDM track.



Come on, this is hardly a music.

Modern or not, even in the 90ies there have been A LOT of boring mainstream eurodance tunes which sounded the same. In the 80ies there were A LOT of boring mainstream pop songs which sounded the same. In the 70ies there were a A LOT of boring mainstream disco songs which sounded the same. Even in the 60ies there were A LOT of boring rock songs which sounded the same...

There have always been boring mainstream songs but most of them are already forgotten.

[DJ Warmonger]

Whatever it is being called nowadays, used to be called techno, acid, house, italo disco, whatever the popular term was

Modern or not, even in the 90ies there have been A LOT of boring mainstream eurodance tunes which sounded the same.

Sure they were, but I still see substantial degeneration in here.

IMO this is not very different from any 'electronic dance' music from past 20 years or so.

For me it is, and I follow it closely. It's not a matter "I like this particular style and not the others". It's complete lack of any musical form, rhythm or melody. Like they tried to make trivial stomping noises on purpose. I really wonder why would anyone like to still call that a music?

The issue is that many people believe (or were told?) that music should be made that way.There were always better or worse tracks, but now the latter are created on purpose.

[ghettosynth]

It's complete lack of any musical form, rhythm or melody. Like they tried to make trivial stomping noises on purpose. I really wonder why would anyone like to still call that a music?

Huh? The track you posted has a clear form, rhythm, and melody. It's still called music because it is music. The incredulity that you are expressing appears misguided to me.