u-he

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:11 am

exmatproton wrote:
Tried that ofcourse. It comes close. Maybe the real "gritty-ness" is coming from the Blofeld itself. It is ofcourse an analogue (OSC section) hardware synth.

Thnx for the tip anyway

For that kind of grit, using an Osc set to TapMap1 or TapMap2 instead of Cosine. Also try running an osc through the quauntizer or sample and hold.
With the sample and hold, use one osc set to 'Semitones' as the sample source and use another osc set to 'Overtones' as the trigger source (so the trigger is also key tracking), then mess with the tune parameter on the trigger source osc.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:22 am

exmatproton wrote: Don't get me wrong, the bazille is amazing! I love it! But the addition to blofeld to keyfollow LFO's is just amazing It would be awesome to have the option in Bazille as well

Each Bazille Oscillator already IS an LFO with keytracking.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:09 am

Urs wrote:Bazille was hand tuned to correspond to MIDI notes when Cutoff is set to 64 (IIRC) and KeyFollow is cranked up.

Really? Is that the case when the filters are oscillating? At least from my experience, if I set a filter's cutoff to 0, key tracking at 100 and the resonance to 50; it oscillates at close to the same frequency as a sine oscillator set to Semitones and Tune at 0. If that's not the case, I have a lot of patches to fix.

Bazille's filters do seem to become more sharp as you increase the resonance beyond 50 (only a couple of cents, not nearly as much as one would expect with a typical filter). I like that characteristic of the filters and use the effect quite a bit. I hope it's not considered a bug.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:34 am

pdxindy wrote:
exmatproton wrote: Don't get me wrong, the bazille is amazing! I love it! But the addition to blofeld to keyfollow LFO's is just amazing It would be awesome to have the option in Bazille as well
Each Bazille Oscillator already IS an LFO with keytracking.

no? They're not? An OSC produces sound, a LFO doesn't, for starters...
An OSC could be used as an LFO, true, but they're NOT the same.

First attempt to get something similar. With a pulse @OSC 2 to the filter section, something gritty can be made. Getting there

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:45 am

Wrong, exmatproton. LFOs in Blofeld go up to audio range... and it can function as an FM modulator, that's the grittiness you get because LFOs are not calculated at the same rate as audio oscillators. So, while not producing any sound on their own because they're not connected to an output, they CAN influence the sound and create sidebands because they can run so fast (anything above 20 Hz is audio range).

And yes, it's just an oscillator. In Bazille, all oscillators are pretty much the same, and you can make any of the 4 main oscillators an LFO just by not connecting it to an audio output!

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:08 am

EvilDragon wrote:Wrong, exmatproton. LFOs in Blofeld go up to audio range... and it can function as an FM modulator, that's the grittiness you get because LFOs are not calculated at the same rate as audio oscillators. So, while not producing any sound on their own because they're not connected to an output, they CAN influence the sound and create sidebands because they can run so fast (anything above 20 Hz is audio range).

And yes, it's just an oscillator. In Bazille, all oscillators are pretty much the same, and you can make any of the 4 main oscillators an LFO just by not connecting it to an audio output!

You're right, ofcourse. BUT, the sound is completely different when i use an OSC to MOD the filter in the Blofeld. When i use a LFO, the sound is mangled in a different way. The LFO is keyfollowing (set at 110 speed, with 100% Keytracking) and delivers a 'unique' and 'natural' sound.

I will play with the LFO in Bazille to get to know this "2nd OSC (and 3rd)" as a source of sound for sure.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:45 am

exmatproton wrote:You're right, ofcourse. BUT, the sound is completely different when i use an OSC to MOD the filter in the Blofeld. When i use a LFO, the sound is mangled in a different way. The LFO is keyfollowing (set at 110 speed, with 100% Keytracking) and delivers a 'unique' and 'natural' sound.

This is the key I think. Even if Bazille's LFOs could be easily scaled in semitones, they wouldn't necessarily sound like the Blofelds LFO. LFOs don't have any special characteristic, other than (as Evil Dragon pointed out) possibly having a lower sample rate than the rest of the audio path. If an LFO sounds different from a normal osc when they are running at the same frequency, it's not because LFOs and Audio oscs are inherently different.

If it were up to me, Bazille wouldn't even have LFOs. There would only be wide range oscillators across the board, which operate as LFOs or audio rate oscillators (as the 4 main oscillators currently do). That's just me though.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:48 am

Different engines = different algorithms = different sound. Bazille is on a whole other level than Blofeld - it's much more precise since it doesn't have to cope with an underpowered Motorola CPU, which is by and large the reason why Blofeld sounds like it does - for better and for worse (effects are really not good in the Blo)...

@justin3am - Bazille is different in regard that EVERYTHING in it (including LFOs) is calculated at the host sample rate. So LFOs are basically another set of oscillators, really.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:58 am

EvilDragon wrote:@justin3am - Bazille is different in regard that EVERYTHING in it (including LFOs) is calculated at the host sample rate. So LFOs are basically another set of oscillators, really.

I could be wrong but I believe the LFOs are one of the few components in Bazille that are evaluated at a lower control rate (though still >1kHz). Another example would be when you run an audio signal into the CV inputs in the 'MIDI and More' section. I think the ramps and Envelopes are also evaluated at a lower rate. Sure you can generate sound with them but I don't think they are operating a the same rate as the rest of the components.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:01 am

justin3am wrote:
exmatproton wrote:You're right, ofcourse. BUT, the sound is completely different when i use an OSC to MOD the filter in the Blofeld. When i use a LFO, the sound is mangled in a different way. The LFO is keyfollowing (set at 110 speed, with 100% Keytracking) and delivers a 'unique' and 'natural' sound.
This is the key I think. Even if Bazille's LFOs could be easily scaled in semitones, they wouldn't necessarily sound like the Blofelds LFO. LFOs don't have any special characteristic, other than (as Evil Dragon pointed out) possibly having a lower sample rate than the rest of the audio path. If an LFO sounds different from a normal osc when they are running at the same frequency, it's not because LFOs and Audio oscs are inherently different.

If it were up to me, Bazille wouldn't even have LFOs. There would only be wide range oscillators across the board, which operate as LFOs or audio rate oscillators (as the 4 main oscillators currently do). That's just me though.

I guess so. I've tried the LFO section as a sound source and they do sound different.
It would be awesome to have 8 osc indeed! With an option to choose between audio rate, or timed rate.

Whatever, Blofeld and Bazille are both, in their own right great instruments!

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 am

EvilDragon wrote:Different engines = different algorithms = different sound. Bazille is on a whole other level than Blofeld - it's much more precise since it doesn't have to cope with an underpowered Motorola CPU, which is by and large the reason why Blofeld sounds like it does - for better and for worse (effects are really not good in the Blo)...

@justin3am - Bazille is different in regard that EVERYTHING in it (including LFOs) is calculated at the host sample rate. So LFOs are basically another set of oscillators, really.

The Blofeld does sound awesome. It is packed with nice featured. And yes, the fx sounds not good

.

I do not want to compare the Blofeld with Bazille. I mean, a modular approach has nothing to do with the Blofeld. However, the sound from the Blofeld when a LFO is used as a keytracking mod, is just awesome!

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:19 am

justin3am wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:@justin3am - Bazille is different in regard that EVERYTHING in it (including LFOs) is calculated at the host sample rate. So LFOs are basically another set of oscillators, really.
I could be wrong but I believe the LFOs are one of the few components in Bazille that are evaluated at a lower control rate (though still >1kHz). Another example would be when you run an audio signal into the CV inputs in the 'MIDI and More' section. I think the ramps and Envelopes are also evaluated at a lower rate. Sure you can generate sound with them but I don't think they are operating a the same rate as the rest of the components.

From what I remember, Urs mentioned that the WHOLE SYNTH is calculated on each sample, since that was interestingly more CPU efficient than doing it in blocks.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:28 am

You could be right. I seem to remember reading that as well.
I do notice that the LFOs and such start to alias at a lower frequency than the main oscillators but that could be caused by any number of things. However, my measurements were far from scientific and I'm not familiar enough with Bazille's guts to be certain.

lectrixboogaloo · Post by **lectrixboogaloo** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:18 pm

So... why, can't you just emulate lower control rates with the quantizer?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:01 pm

Last time I checked, quantizer influences amplitude (amount of steps in the waveform), not frequency (number of samples per second representing the waveform). Correct me if I'm wrong.

u-he

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Bazille Filter Question