Hive preview (April 1 update)

[Sim.Sky]

- will the hexagon thing work out?

- Urs

hey urs,

maybe i missed something, but what exactly do you mean by that? is it concerns regarding the overall layout? if so, then i strongly recommend leaving it just as it is - i really like hive's look and feel, and as you said in another post, it looks somewhat futuristic, which imho suits the main purpose (edm, ...) just perfectly!

cheers and also a big thank you for this pretty pre-christmas gift

[hakey]

I'm slow today... I still don't get it.

So I've selected mod wheel for the CC lane... then what?

[Tricky-Loops]

1. We can rush it out by mid January.

2. Sound Design, UI and a few features can mature while I'm taking my Summer break in Australia in February, and then we prepare for a luxurious release in late March/early April, with some more features added. In this case a free-to-use beta will be available till end of March at least.

A big vote for taking your time. Nothing is better than taking a break and coming back to a project with fresh ears and eyes. As long as the public beta is around there is actually no hurry.

/C

+ 1

I have to save some money to buy it (if at least some more waveforms & filter types will be added), so March would be a good time for a release!

BTW, I like the GUI, looks like a dance floor!

[chk071]

Urs, sorry if that had been brought up yet, but have there been considerations to ditch the engine thing, and simply add the filter types to the drop down menu, and implement an option to set whether the envelopes are linear, exponential or whatever? It not only would make it much more obvious, but also make the synth much more flexible. The only downside i can see is that the filter menu would be more bloated then. But for me, the simplicistic approach is a bit contradictory to having engines, which have to be understood, or it has to be done trial and error, to use. Seriously, i may be a bit dumb, but i was quite surprised to find out that the filter types vary between the engines, and i build up a prejudice based on the filter type present in the "normal" engine, which is pretty raw, and distorting, while the one in clean mode suits me much more. As said, could be just me, but i find that approach a bit intransparent.

[Urs]

I'm slow today... I still don't get it.

So I've selected mod wheel for the CC lane... then what?

When you play back it sends ModWheel with the notes it plays. Or at least, it should.

And when you modulate, say, Cutoff or Detune by ModWheel, those will now be different for each step of the sequence.

And when you turn the sequencer off, your ModWheel gets control back.

I haven't tried today, but it worked two weeks ago. If it doesn't then it's broken. And I think recording ModWheel is currently broken anyway. You might need to mouse the values you would like it to send.

[Urs]

- will the hexagon thing work out?

- Urs

hey urs,

maybe i missed something, but what exactly do you mean by that? is it concerns regarding the overall layout? if so, then i strongly recommend leaving it just as it is - i really like hive's look and feel, and as you said in another post, it looks somewhat futuristic, which imho suits the main purpose (edm, ...) just perfectly!

cheers and also a big thank you for this pretty pre-christmas gift

Nah, not the layout, but a feature we're going to add. I've set up a thread wth some answers:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=427890

[Urs]

Urs, sorry if that had been brought up yet, but have there been considerations to ditch the engine thing, and simply add the filter types to the drop down menu, and implement an option to set whether the envelopes are linear, exponential or whatever? It not only would make it much more obvious, but also make the synth much more flexible. The only downside i can see is that the filter menu would be more bloated then. But for me, the simplicistic approach is a bit contradictory to having engines, which have to be understood, or it has to be done trial and error, to use. Seriously, i may be a bit dumb, but i was quite surprised to find out that the filter types vary between the engines, and i build up a prejudice based on the filter type present in the "normal" engine, which is pretty raw, and distorting, while the one in clean mode suits me much more. As said, could be just me, but i find that approach a bit intransparent.

The engines contain very subtle changes and future engines might vary in different ways.

Thing is, if we did a filter topology drop down, the first feature request would be "please, can we have the ladder filter on one and the Steiner-Parker on the other filter?". But my answer would be "No, both filters share the same code, always… in fact much of Hive's CPU friendlyness is owed to all four filters - 2 x stereo - being processed in parallel, simultaneously".

IMHO the differences are stunningly subtle already, in many settings, that is. I'd rather have 1 selector that doesn't do much than three or four selectors that do even less.

However, those subtle differences might come in handy once one gets to know Hive a bit better. Like, how the self oscillation of the dirty filter "breaks free" below the oscillator fundamental. Or how the Clean filter has this forceful sound to it when swept.

Note that Sylenth for instance has a similar thing with the "Warm Drive" option. Sometimes I've wondered what it does, if anything. Other times it makes all the difference.

[Tricky-Loops]

Urs, can you please tell if new waveforms & filter types will be added? Because that's the most important thing for me: that it's possible to make different kind of sounds with it. I don't care if the modulation amount will be displayed with colors or not, I don't even need an oscilloscope at all (there are plugins to do that) - for me it's important that it can make different sounds, not only the usual EDM lead and bass sounds.

[hakey]

You can this way create a patch that works the same way when sequenced vs. played without sequencer. Set up modulations with a controller of choice, play it live or have it played by sequencer.

Okay, I kind of get it. I don't understand the rational. If I've routed mod wheel to cutoff or whatever it's because I want to be able to change cutoff whilst the note is playing, but when the sequencer takes over it treats the modulation as a note-on source (like vel) not a dynamic mod source. I don't see the advantage over just having a modulation lane in the sequencer visible as a mod source in the MMs. Seems unnecessarily complicated.

[Urs]

Urs, can you please tell if new waveforms & filter types will be added? Because that's the most important thing for me: that it's possible to make different kind of sounds with it. I don't care if the modulation amount will be displayed with colors or not, I don't even need an oscilloscope at all (there are plugins to do that) - for me it's important that it can make different sounds, not only the usual EDM lead and bass sounds.

I don't know if we can add more filter types. We can get a lot more out of the ladder filter, but one can't get, say, a 6dB LP out of a State Variable. What filter types exactly do you have in mind?

As for more waveforms - yes, I'm pretty sure we'll add more. I just wasn't happy with the ones I've experimented with. So far.

But please don't make any decisions on "what could be". At the moment, this is Hive. What the future brings, I currently don't really know myself.

[Tricky-Loops]

Urs, can you please tell if new waveforms & filter types will be added? Because that's the most important thing for me: that it's possible to make different kind of sounds with it. I don't care if the modulation amount will be displayed with colors or not, I don't even need an oscilloscope at all (there are plugins to do that) - for me it's important that it can make different sounds, not only the usual EDM lead and bass sounds.

I don't know if we can add more filter types. We can get a lot more out of the ladder filter, but one can't get, say, a 6dB LP out of a State Variable. What filter types exactly do you have in mind?

As for more waveforms - yes, I'm pretty sure we'll add more. I just wasn't happy with the ones I've experimented with. So far.

But please don't make any decisions on "what could be". At the moment, this is Hive. What the future brings, I currently don't really know myself.

I'm thinking of creative filters like formant/vocal filters or comb filters (they would fit great to the "Hive" sound quality!). I don't think that there should be steeper slopes like 48 or 96 dB (nobody is using them, except surgeons), just some different filter types to add different flavors.

[Urs]

You can this way create a patch that works the same way when sequenced vs. played without sequencer. Set up modulations with a controller of choice, play it live or have it played by sequencer.

Okay, I kind of get it. I don't understand the rational. If I've routed mod wheel to cutoff or whatever it's because I want to be able to change cutoff whilst the note is playing, but when the sequencer takes over it treats the modulation as a note-on source (like vel) not a dynamic mod source. I don't see the advantage over just having a modulation lane in the sequencer visible as a mod source in the MMs. Seems unnecessarily complicated.

You can always use a controller that you usually don't use live. Maybe the expression one. Thing is, we want to get rid of BC and XP anyway and make those a choice like MIDI1 and MIDI2. And maybe add MIDI3 and MIDI4 as well. It'll eventually happen once our preferences panel emerges for all plug-ins. So then, there's not really any disadvantage over a dedicated mod name here, in the long run.

The advantage however is that the sequencer generates two different control signals at once - the MIDI controller as steps and the Sequencer Gate as a rhythmic source /w Gate + Attack/Decay control.

[rod_zero]

More filters nay, more waveforms yay! Some selection of digital waveforms would be nice.

[DrGonzo]

...

OT: The link in your sig gives me a 404 ...

Fixed & Thanks for telling me. Updated my web yesterday and I totally forgot about that link.

/C

[Urs]

I'm thinking of creative filters like formant/vocal filters or comb filters (they would fit great to the "Hive" sound quality!). I don't think that there should be steeper slopes like 48 or 96 dB (nobody is using them, except surgeons), just some different filter types to add different flavors.

I never found steeper slopes to be overly useful. However, you can route filter 1 into filter 2. That creates a lot of potential.

As for formant/vocal and comb filters - if we do these then as part of waveforms / synthesis methods added to the oscillator section.

In the grand scheme I think Hive would be very suited for some sort of pad synthesis. In fact I've experimented a lot with the infamous PADsynth algorithm by Nasca Octavian Paul. I just haven't found a sufficient way to keep memory and CPU down while maintaining a no-brainer interface. Experiments with realtime synthesis were great, but not yet fully convincing.