Hope I'm Wrong About MULab's Multitrack Workflow

[MeanMrMustard]

Hi All,

I really want to like MU. And have heard so many positive comments about it. However after downloading the demo I'm a little disappointed in the multitrack audio workflow. I'm working with MU 6 (32 bit) on a Win 7 64bit laptop.

I am a guitarist/vocalist songwriter and need a solid audio multitrack DAW with a quick and intuitive workflow to quickly capture ideas and performances. Along with some light midi capabilities. After watching MU's video (below) and running a few tests I have to say I find it overly cumbersome. Though I'm hoping I am wrong, and it's just my lack of understanding as I'm new to MU.

Video --


The process seems to be....

1) you add an audio track. and are greeted with an 'audio file recorder' track in the track lane but no corresponding mixer rack (I believe that is the term used) and a small recorder pop up to adjust settings. You also have to add a mixer rack to the track as its set to master out. (it would be nice if you just added a track and its corresponding and assigned mixer rack appeared along with it)

2) Engage the record button and record the audio track

3) Time to add a second audio track. Here is where it gets strange.... I add another track and receive another 'audio file recorder' track in the track lane. along with another small 'audio file recorder' pop up to make settings. I add another mixer rack (Rack 4) to the output.

Now....

a) what was on the first track and already assigned to rack 3 now plays through rack 4 along with the new recording. How and why did that happen when I already assigned the first track to rack 3 ?

b) the monitor and record indicators in the track lane both go on and off from the small 'audio file recorder' pop up. If I'm recording to the 2nd track only why is the first tracks record and monitor on as well. There doesn't seem to be any way to shut off one without the other following suit.

c) Now when I hit play back both tracks play through rack 4 even though the first was already assigned to rack 3. And therefore I can not set individual monitoring levels since all tracks are now running through the same rack.


4) Time to add a third audio track. And now all three record and monitor buttons go on and off in the track lane when the 'audio file recorder' pop up is engaged. Again there seems no way to just have the track (record and monitor ) you are recording to only selected. And yes now tracks one and two play through rack 5 along with the new recording even though they were both previously assigned to racks 3 and 4 respectively. And upon play back all tracks now only play through rack 5. The previous settings are lost (?) and have to be redone ? I'm sorry but if this is the case it is unnecessary and time consuming since it was already set.

I'm sure if I continue it will be the same. And I do hope this is my misunderstanding of MU and not MU's actual workflow.
I would think you ...

1) add a track and its corresponding linked mixer rack both appear
2) engage record and record your track
3) hit stop, add a second track (and it's corresponding linked mixer rack) , hit record and record your second track while monitoring the first through its own individual mixer channel. ect ect.

As well when you add tracks it would be nice if they have specific names (track1,2,3,ect) instead of every track being named "audio file recorder" Yes of course you might want to change that but that should be later on. Not during a recording session. Having 16 tracks all named "audio file recorder" can be very confusing.





Taken while recording to 3rd audio track (rack 5)

1) All indicator monitor/ record lights are either all on or off even though Im only recording to one track
2) All three tracks are now going through rack 5 even though 3 and 4 were previously assigned respectively.




I'll just add some other issues/questions but wont go into it as this has been long winded enough !

- How do you change the folder where the audio tracks are recorded to ? It would be best to have the audio tracks on a different drive than the OS, sample folder and DAW drive.
- How do you set MU for 24 bit recording. There seems to only be 16 or 32 ? 32 can be a resource hog and 16 is a bit low. most musicians I know do prefer 24 bit.
- I tried to set up a Multi-Out VSTi in the 'Modular' screen (next to compose and edit) but was unable to ? Is this possible ?


Sorry if this came off as critical. It wasn't meant to be that way !! MU is an excellent DAW (from what Ive seen on UTube) with a beautiful clean GUI a very active user base and many updates. I do hope most of these workflow issues are my misunderstanding. But as it stands now I find the workflow to be very combersome. It reminds me somewhat of Fl Studio in that it might be geared more toward 'electronic' music as opposed to an audio multitrack DAW such as Reaper. I tried FL and even though its loved as an 'electronic' music daw the audio part of it was less than desirable. From what Ive seen of MULab on UTube most if not all videos seemed to be based on electronic midi style music as well. But I do hope that's not the case.


Thank you, MMM

[MuTools]

Indeed maybe MuLab comes from focusing more on creative sequencing with the seamlessly integrated modular sound engine than on traditional audio recording. But it's certainly the intention to further improve workflow comfort for traditional audio recording work. Feel free to make suggestions.

That said, let me tell how it is now: The essential part in audio recording is the audio recorder module. It records from the audio inputs you setup and it outputs to its "Output To" module. When recording is done it will create a audio part on the track that targets that audio recorder. Simple as that. Pls also see http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/recording.html

In the example you gave i think you have used the same audio recorder for different tracks and thus when changing that audio recorder's output all connected tracks follow of course. Look at it this way: An audio recorder module is a combination of inputs+outputs, so if you want a different combination of inputs+outputs then use a separate new recorder module. Does this help? The good thing about this system is that it's flexible and integrates well in the modular system. But i'm open for suggestions how to further improve the audio recording workflow.

[MeanMrMustard]

Thank you for your response. After spending some time with MU I see where my problem lies. I was selecting "audio file recorder" instead of "new recorder". But it seems best to just always use "new recorder" when setting up multiple audio tracks. This is not clearly written out in the docs and I think there will be those who will find it somewhat confusing as well. Also I wasn't able to find an explanation as to what "none" "audio file recorder" or "new recorder" actually meant and what the differences were between them. I'm still not really clear on that since "audio file recorder" and "new recorder" seem to do the same thing (?). But just using 'new' seems to work best.






Anyway that said I added 8 audio tracks via "new recorder" renamed both the tracks and the corresponding racks for clarity and saved that as a templete and now I have an 8 track audio DAW at the click of a button !! Excellent. I'll do the same for a 12, 16 and 24 track templates.

I would suggest adding a few "multitrack audio" templetes to the demo to facilitate that workflow and possibly adding a specific 'traditional audio recording' section to the docs to further explain the multitrack audio process.
Having worked with MU for a few days I see it can actually be very similar to the more traditional DAW paradigm if you set it up properly. It's just not that evident at first.


A few suggestions for you to consider.

1. Add 24 bit audio. It seems MU is 16 and 32. Most musicians I speak with prefer 24.
2. Add the ability to move the audio folder. (User/Audio/Recordings) Recording audio to the same drive as the OS and/or app can be problematic.
3. Add a few multitrack templetes to the demo


Thank you & Happy Holidays, MMM

[MuTools]

Did you read the docs about the audio recorder module. I think if you understand that principle then the None - Recorder X - New Recorder choice should be clear, no?

I would suggest adding a few "multitrack audio" templetes to the demo to facilitate that workflow and

Note that it depends on your audio setup. That said, there is a audio recording template session, it's called "Record Audio".

possibly adding a specific 'traditional audio recording' section to the docs to further explain the multitrack audio process.

Well that's what i tried to do on http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/recording.html
Together with the following youtube movie:

[MuTools]

2. Add the ability to move the audio folder. (User/Audio/Recordings) Recording audio to the same drive as the OS and/or app can be problematic.

That's already possible using the "Manage Audio/Sample Files" function.
Please also see this doc page: http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... mples.html

Thank you & Happy Holidays, MMM

Thx & a happy new year's eve tomorrow to you too!

[Reincke]

"MeanMrMustard" - what a nice nickname. I guess you've heard a certain record form the late sixties. The band is called, ahh ... ?
JR

[BlackWinny]

... The band is called, ahh ... ?
JR

Hmmm... the Bugs?

No. But it was something like that.

What I remember is that they thought they were more popular than Jesus.

[Michael L]

in the spirit of the holidays, the same person who composed Mr. Mustard also wrote "Happy Xmas (War is Over)" with the chorus,
A very merry Christmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear!

[BlackWinny]

A few years later he wrote some of the most beautiful words ever in a song:

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can.
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man.
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one.

[bibz1st]

Yes, but he also wrote the lyrics.... "I am the walrus......"
hmmm

Happy Mu Year all

[Reincke]

Yeah, "The Bugs" is very close. Or "The Blowflies? "The Puncakes"? Oh, this damn forgetfulness!
But I remember the drummer liked Beethoven. "Especially his poems ..."
JR

[BlackWinny]

Yeah, "The Bugs" is very close. Or "The Blowflies? "The Puncakes"? Oh, this damn forgetfulness!
But I remember the drummer liked Beethoven. "Especially his poems ..."
JR

[MeanMrMustard]

Did you read the docs about the audio recorder module. I think if you understand that principle then the None - Recorder X - New Recorder choice should be clear, no?

Considering "audio file recorder" "new recorder" and "none" are never actually mentioned in the docs it's not readily apparent what they do. so no. None is none, "new recorder" works well and is what I've used, but "audio file recorder" is rather ambiguous. No problem though I just delete it.



Why does MU add these small 1kb Wav files in the audio folder that seem to serve no purpose? I recorded four test audio tracks, looked in the audio folder and found

1) the four waves I recorded ( I marked the four I actually recorded) .
2) four OVW files
3) and all these 1kb wave files with no sound ??? Where did they come from and why are they there ?

I would suggest adding a few "multitrack audio" templetes to the demo to facilitate that workflow and

Note that it depends on your audio setup. That said, there is a audio recording template session, it's called "Record Audio".

possibly adding a specific 'traditional audio recording' section to the docs to further explain the multitrack audio process.

Well that's what i tried to do on http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/recording.html
Together with the following youtube movie:

Yes but multitrack implies more than one track. Yes ? Your template has only one track. The video you posted also only shows one track as well with a second take. Multitrack recording is usually 8/16/24 tracks.

2. Add the ability to move the audio folder. (User/Audio/Recordings) Recording audio to the same drive as the OS and/or app can be problematic.

That's already possible using the "Manage Audio/Sample Files" function.
Please also see this doc page: http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... mples.html

Sorry but I see nothing (below) that explains how to move the 'User Folder' to another drive. If you install MU to the C drive the User/Audio/Recordings folder is placed there by default as well. How do you move it to another drive ? As I had said recording audio to the same drive that the OS and or DAW are on can be problematic. Usually resulting in glitches as the needle has to jump back and forth on the HD.


Also it seems 'MUSessions' go to the User/Library and can be put in separate folders but by default all the audio files are dropped into one folder. The User/Audio/Recordings folder. As you can imagine this can get very messy when you have 10, 15, 20 songs of 16 to 24 tracks each all in one folder. And all named Audio File Recorder(1)-20150103- xxxxxx. If you want to edit one track in your audio editor how do you even find it in there ?

In the docs you mentioned "Within each session folder use an "Audio" sub-folder where the audio and sample files for that specific session are stored"

Does this mean each song can have its own separate audio folder ? If so, how exactly is this done ???


You also mentioned the "Manage Audio/Sample Files" function. Though I see nothing here either to move audio files to another drive and or place them in separate project folders.





Also speaking of songs/projects how do you DELETE a song ?? I see save, import, export but no delete function ....

Managing audio files in a session

This is the recommended way of working:

For each of your sessions (aka project) use a separate folder that collects all data specific for that session. Within each session folder use an "Audio" sub-folder where the audio and sample files for that specific session are stored, unless the sample files are part of a common sample library and you did not change the sample, then it can simply be referenced in that library. Not however that if you would ever change such referenced sample, your session will use that latest change, of course. If you would have used audio/sample files outside that session's audio sub-folder you can easily move or copy them inside the session's audio sub-folder via the Manage Audio/Sample Files function mentioned before. The bottomline being that all data that exclusively belongs to a certain session is collected in that session folder. And more specificly: All audio data that exclusively belongs to a certain session is collected in that session's "Audio" sub-folder That way it's easy to backup the session folder and/or move it to another system, since MuLab will use relative file references when saving a session and when the audio/sample files are in a sub-folder of the session folder.

All in all you have a great DAW but there are elements on the audio side that make it rather cumbersome to work with. I do hope you will address these at some point.


Thank you again for your time, MMM

[MuTools]

Considering "audio file recorder" "new recorder" and "none" are never actually mentioned in the docs

The docs don't list each and every single bit of MuLab / MUX Modular for good reasons cfr http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... -docs.html

Audio recording, including the audio recorder module, is explained on http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/recording.html

Why does MU add these small 1kb Wav files in the audio folder that seem to serve no purpose?

Researched this, ok that's a bug. You can ignore/delete those files. That bug is fixed in the forthcoming new MuLab 6.2 which will be available here one of the days.

Sorry but I see nothing (below) that explains how to move the 'User Folder' to another drive.

Save your session to that other drive then use "Manage Audio/Sample Files" to move or copy all related audio and sample files to the audio sub-folder in the session folder. Cfr http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... mples.html

If you install MU to the C drive the User/Audio/Recordings folder is placed there by default as well. How do you move it to another drive ? As I had said recording audio to the same drive that the OS and or DAW are on can be problematic. Usually resulting in glitches as the needle has to jump back and forth on the HD.

See http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... mples.html

Does this mean each song can have its own separate audio folder? If so, how exactly is this done ???

When you do a new session best to save it to its own session folder. Then all new recordings are automatically placed in that session's audio sub-folder.

Also speaking of songs/projects how do you DELETE a song ?? I see save, import, export but no delete function ....

Using the Windows explorer / Mac finder.