Hive preview (April 1 update)

[bmrzycki]

Thank you very much and a special thank you to bmrzycki for his community spirit:)

Yeah, Thank you, bmrzycki

Thanks guys, I appreciate it!

[bmrzycki]

Beating like in Dirty isn't good. Phasing (like in Normal and Clean) is much better - it adds motion.

Maybe Urs can add a tweak page that you can pick the envelopes from one, the detune from another, and the filter from the third. Call it "voided warranty" mode.

[bmrzycki]

Now I sent my patches to bmrzycki.
Maybe he will add mine to the PatchLib file.

Very nice patches, and 100 of them! I've listened to about 10 of them and am looking forward to exploring more later today. Thanks for sharing!

They're added to the main zip along with the new ones from Infinite5ths and Ameyah Audio.

Here's the link again for those that don't want to go through pages of posts:

http://u-he.com/PatchLib/presets/hive/KVR-Hive_Beta.zip

One last note to patch authors: please try to keep your final volume between -6dB and -0.1dB. I spent some time last night normalizing the volume on some of the patches. If you feel I ruined your sound please let me know. Some of the presets went as loud as +10dB causing Reaper to auto-mute the channel...

[ontrackp]

Hive sounds great and making patches is quick and intuitive. Here are my feature requests for the final release:

- another set of envelopes and lfo's.
- ramp and/or lag generators
- one more modulation page
- a simple FM implementation

Thank you and Happy Holidays!

[EvilDragon]

Yeah that probably won't happen.

[zvenx]

Now I sent my patches to bmrzycki.
Maybe he will add mine to the PatchLib file.

Very nice patches, and 100 of them! I've listened to about 10 of them and am looking forward to exploring more later today. Thanks for sharing!

They're added to the main zip along with the new ones from Infinite5ths and Ameyah Audio.

Here's the link again for those that don't want to go through pages of posts:

http://u-he.com/PatchLib/presets/hive/KVR-Hive_Beta.zip

One last note to patch authors: please try to keep your final volume between -6dB and -0.1dB. I spent some time last night normalizing the volume on some of the patches. If you feel I ruined your sound please let me know. Some of the presets went as loud as +10dB causing Reaper to auto-mute the channel...

Thank you very much for collecting these, editing them and all the contributors.

Who is AusDisciple aka David O'Connor. Is he a kvrite?
rsp

[Fritze]

So, nobody wants to say something? I think it is a very important aspect to discuss, after all unison is a key feature of this synth.
Everybody likes the Dirt-mode unison detuning law?

BTW, about detuning laws. While Normal (exponential) and Clear (somewhat 8k-like) sound really great, I strongly dislike detuning law in Dirt mode with usual linear even detuning law that I have tired (90% of other synths use this law). There is nothing pleasant in all these uniform beatings. I think if this detuning law is a feature, it would be good idea at least to somewhat randomly move pitches of voices for every new note either in a local manner (every pitch can be randomly placed at its own segment between neighbors, that is detuning_range/unison_voices long) or in a global manner (every pitch can be randomly placed at a full detuning range). It will break this beating.
Also, as for the names. I personally feel that exponential detuning is more appropriate for Clear mode. Although it is very subjective.

Post some audio examples of where you don't like it...

Ok, here it is.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/570 ... _dirty.mp3
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/570 ... normal.mp3
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/570 ... _clean.mp3
Beating like in Dirty isn't good. Phasing (like in Normal and Clean) is much better - it adds motion.

Ah, cool that you did this. To me the whole topic is deeper than liking or disliking one or the other detuning law. While one gives the sound a certain character using a certain amount of detune it doesn't shine for different amounts of detune for different sounds.

My feature request is to make the detune laws selectable, apart from the general engine settings.

The different filters/engines are really good and really different from each other. It would be cool to have the described additional flexibility as the "SuperOsc" concept is a vital part of this great synth.

[Tricky-Loops]

What is a "detuning law"? I thought the different modes are about different filter envelopes...

[Fritze]

What is a "detuning law"? I thought the different modes are about different filter envelopes...

Detuning Law: Check out the examples trance_lucent posted. Please listen for the different beatings in the different engines. The oscillators are detuned differently in the 3 engines.
Theoretical example: Imagine that when you turn "Detune" to 50 in the Normal engine and you chose 4 oscilators in Osc1. then they could be detuned against each other like this (in cents) -4, -8, +4, +8.
In a different engine this could be: -3, -8, +3, +8.
Stuff like that. I don't know the real world values. But when you listen to the examples you'll hear that these different ways of detuning the oscillators will give different phasing/flanging effects. And that makes quite some difference.

The engines are more than just different filters: AFAIK it's the filter, the envelopes and the detuning laws that make the differences between the engines.

[Infinite5ths]

Detune law deals with spacing of the detuned unison voices: Best way to see/hear this is to check out the detune options in Xfer Records Serum (use the demo if you don't own it - no need to buy just for this). They appear on the Global page under Unison - the "Mode" switches. Once you select a mode, you can go back to the main synth page and adjust the unison/detune controls while watching a visual indicator of how the voices are spaced from each other and from center. Each mode spaces things differently and sounds slightly different.

Or just start watching at about 5:50 in this YouTube video:

This concept is closely related to the concept of pan laws, only here it deals with the tuning rather than panoramic positioning.

[Tricky-Loops]

Thanks for the explanations!

There's only one problem: What if I wanted to have the filter of the "Clean Mode", the detune law of the "Dirty Mode" and the envelope of the "Normal Mode"?

Wouldn't it be better to simply have a drop-down menu to chose the desired filters/envelopes/detune laws?

[4damind]

The detuning/unison "law" is IMO better implemented with Dune2 or Xfer Serum. This is the only point with Hive where I would say it's not state of the art.

[Infinite5ths]

Thanks for the explanations!

There's only one problem: What if I wanted to have the filter of the "Clean Mode", the detune law of the "Dirty Mode" and the envelope of the "Normal Mode"?

Wouldn't it be better to simply have a drop-down menu to chose the desired filters/envelopes/detune laws?

That's why people have been suggesting exactly this as feature requests. However, in my opinion, (as cool as they are) the detune modes in Serum are more novelty than essential feature. The non-linear modes tend to be more grating on my ears and require more precise tweaking to find a sweet spot. A few engine options (each with a detune law, filter, and envelope pre-selected with a certain sound in mind) may actually save the average user from wasted time and confusion.

[Fritze]

A few engine options (each with a detune law, filter, and envelope pre-selected with a certain sound in mind) may actually save the average user from wasted time and confusion.

This could be achieved with an option in the detune law drop down list that says something with the meaning of "switch with engine", which could be the default. The other entries in the list could be the various detune laws.
Best of both worlds: Easy mode if you keep the default and more control if you want to have it.

[Urs]

A few engine options (each with a detune law, filter, and envelope pre-selected with a certain sound in mind) may actually save the average user from wasted time and confusion.

This could be achieved with an option in the detune law drop down list that says something with the meaning of "switch with engine", which could be the default. The other entries in the list could be the various detune laws.
Best of both worlds: Easy mode if you keep the default and more control if you want to have it.

I'm not against that. We can do this while preserving backward compatibility.

However, I wouldn't like it to become a prominently placed parameter. It would have to be somewhat tucked away, and it must not get in anyone's way.