Hive preview (April 1 update)

[Shmoe]

Don't know if somebody has posted on this yet, but Hive's sequencer doesn't seem to want to sync with Logic X. It keeps shifting the "1", though the tempo syncs. Maybe it's a setting I've missed.

[trance_lucent]

What you do is set phase reset on, detune to zero, then use a quick blip of an envelope to modulate detune amount.
...
Yeah, I know...

What is wrong? This is a legal trick, I used it in Zebra, but somehow wasn't able to produce something decent, because in Zebra there are many other ways to do many other features, so it is harder to stay focused, unlikely to using Hive.

[Urs]

Don't know if somebody has posted on this yet, but Hive's sequencer doesn't seem to want to sync with Logic X. It keeps shifting the "1", though the tempo syncs. Maybe it's a setting I've missed.

I think we got that written down somewhere. Same for the arpeggiator.

Should be fixed in final version!

[Urs]

If you're willing to waste/gang several mod matrix slots

Someone suggested a "Constant x 2" mod source. I've started warming up to this since. I think it would reduce the necessity to gang ModMatrices tremendously!

I've furthermore gotten into the idea of 2-4 "Makro Mod Knobs" which are knobs that are available as drop downs in modulation targets, along with envelopes, LFOs and MIDI. Not sure if I would like to make them ModMatrix targets as well

I'm also thinking that a ModMatrix should be able to modulate another, from bottom to top, i.e. ModMatrix 1 can modulate ModMatrix 2 but not vice versa.

[Aiynzahev]

If you're willing to waste/gang several mod matrix slots

Someone suggested a "Constant x 2" mod source. I've started warming up to this since. I think it would reduce the necessity to gang ModMatrices tremendously!

I've furthermore gotten into the idea of 2-4 "Makro Mod Knobs" which are knobs that are available as drop downs in modulation targets, along with envelopes, LFOs and MIDI. Not sure if I would like to make them ModMatrix targets as well

I'm also thinking that a ModMatrix should be able to modulate another, from bottom to top, i.e. ModMatrix 1 can modulate ModMatrix 2 but not vice versa.

Oh that last bit is a no no for me. That means I have to plan in advance which mod-slots do what, incase I want to modulate them. Ease of use and flexibility dictates all mod-slots are equal and can do the same things. That way I can just merrily program away without thought about which slot is doing what.

[Urs]

Regarding the BYO concept vs. drop downs for esoteric parameters I think I found two concepts that could be a middle ground:

1. Customize dialog

The engines stay as they are, a choice of 3. A small button next to the selector opens a nicely laid out window with 3 options:

First option is to take the default detune law of the engine, or override it with a choice of 3, maybe more. Each mode is displayed with nicely depicted pitch distributions.

Second and third option is about Amp and Mod envelopes. Choice of default, or override with 3 choices each. Each mode is displayed with a visual of the envelope shape.

If anything is override, the small button next to the selector that opens this window changes colour to indicate the change.

Advantage of this method: We could add more choices than there are already. The options themselves are so esoteric that it'll be difficult to be confused when a patch sounds "unexpected" (as opposed to hidden expert settings)

Disadvantage: Might still be a bit confusing. Not sure.

2. Combo Engine

Instead of adding a full blown set of expert choices to a "Build Your Own" engine, we just have a simple Matrix in a very little window where each of the 3 aspects of the engines (detune law, filter topology, envelopes) can be chosen from the three engines themselves, like this

Detune law: [x] Normal [ ] Dirty [ ] Clean

Filters: [ ] Normal [x] Dirty [ ] Clean

Envelopes: [ ] Normal [ ] Dirty [x] Clean

Advantage: Very simple. Instant comprehension.

Distadvantage: Maybe too simple…?

#---

I agree that there it's desirable to have a way to combine those aspects differently to what is set up by default. However, the main question is, how deep does it need to be to satisfy such demanding folks as our user base? It's a complicated balance act.

For one thing I would love to add deep choices. An eco mode for the normal filter could make recreating that 303 preset a piece of cake. But whatever we do, we must not make the modes surplus, because the immediacy of flipping through them might be a key feature. The vast majority of factory presets must remain within the default modes.

[Urs]

I'm also thinking that a ModMatrix should be able to modulate another, from bottom to top, i.e. ModMatrix 1 can modulate ModMatrix 2 but not vice versa.

Oh that last bit is a no no for me. That means I have to plan in advance which mod-slots do what, incase I want to modulate them. Ease of use and flexibility dictates all mod-slots are equal and can do the same things. That way I can just merrily program away without thought about which slot is doing what.

Fair enough… but what if we do top to bottom as well, that's like opening a can of worms…

Otoh, just checked some other synths. Many don't do this. Most just don't. Hmmm, this makes me think that maybe we don't need Matrix by Matrix modulations?

[Aiynzahev]

I'm also thinking that a ModMatrix should be able to modulate another, from bottom to top, i.e. ModMatrix 1 can modulate ModMatrix 2 but not vice versa.

Oh that last bit is a no no for me. That means I have to plan in advance which mod-slots do what, incase I want to modulate them. Ease of use and flexibility dictates all mod-slots are equal and can do the same things. That way I can just merrily program away without thought about which slot is doing what.

Fair enough… but what if we do top to bottom as well, that's like opening a can of worms…

Otoh, just checked some other synths. Many don't do this. Most just don't. Hmmm, this makes me think that maybe we don't need Matrix by Matrix modulations?

Edit - major cleanup.

IMO while MM modulation useful it's not really needed in HIVE if you want to keep it on the simple side of things, especially as you already have via slots.

In my opinion, what is needed most is more sound mangling ability. Awesome sound abilities are for me first and foremost. In the form of easy to use. Finely tweaked FX modules.

More complex distortion like the stomp boxes in the Virus,
DPR as in Presswerk
Virus TI Air Chorus
Virus TI Tape Delay
Ableton's Beat Repeat, I'd love that! Melda's Mpowersynth has some amazing looping & granular delay options.

As a perfect example, other synths offer more flexibility with regards to Phaser/Flanger & Chorus. Sometimes you simply have to roll your own with one set of controls. But I'd much rather have the modules in Hive/Diva. They sound amazing. The flanger/phaser is exactly what I want from the moment I switch it on.

So I'd like to see more musical features in synths and not just more features per se.

Sorry for the really long post Urs! This is not a rant at all, I just have a lot of ideas. But I know I've already bombarded you with my this and other stuff via email

[EvilDragon]

Regarding the BYO concept vs. drop downs for esoteric parameters I think I found two concepts that could be a middle ground:

1. Customize dialog

The engines stay as they are, a choice of 3. A small button next to the selector opens a nicely laid out window with 3 options:

First option is to take the default detune law of the engine, or override it with a choice of 3, maybe more. Each mode is displayed with nicely depicted pitch distributions.

Second and third option is about Amp and Mod envelopes. Choice of default, or override with 3 choices each. Each mode is displayed with a visual of the envelope shape.

If anything is override, the small button next to the selector that opens this window changes colour to indicate the change.

Advantage of this method: We could add more choices than there are already. The options themselves are so esoteric that it'll be difficult to be confused when a patch sounds "unexpected" (as opposed to hidden expert settings)

Disadvantage: Might still be a bit confusing. Not sure.

2. Combo Engine

Instead of adding a full blown set of expert choices to a "Build Your Own" engine, we just have a simple Matrix in a very little window where each of the 3 aspects of the engines (detune law, filter topology, envelopes) can be chosen from the three engines themselves, like this

Detune law: [x] Normal [ ] Dirty [ ] Clean

Filters: [ ] Normal [x] Dirty [ ] Clean

Envelopes: [ ] Normal [ ] Dirty [x] Clean

Advantage: Very simple. Instant comprehension.

Distadvantage: Maybe too simple…?

#---

I agree that there it's desirable to have a way to combine those aspects differently to what is set up by default. However, the main question is, how deep does it need to be to satisfy such demanding folks as our user base? It's a complicated balance act.

For one thing I would love to add deep choices. An eco mode for the normal filter could make recreating that 303 preset a piece of cake. But whatever we do, we must not make the modes surplus, because the immediacy of flipping through them might be a key feature. The vast majority of factory presets must remain within the default modes.

Option 2. It's more in line with the simplicity and ease of use of Hive. You could have more than 3 options for each setting.

[Caine123]

till when is HIVE discounted again? im still struggling getting this or SPIRE.

[Caine123]

Here's quick demo of the presets I've come up with in few days. I think HIVE is my favourite U-he synth because it's so fast to program. I want to see oscillator sync though in the future and maybe some more mod targets, like another mod slot knobs...

some great patches, now im thhinkinh even more getting this synth..... i love the 80s type, well i got diva though too for it...

[Breeze]

If you're willing to waste/gang several mod matrix slots

Someone suggested a "Constant x 2" mod source. I've started warming up to this since. I think it would reduce the necessity to gang ModMatrices tremendously!

I mentioned "ConstX2" a while back. For that very reason.

I've furthermore gotten into the idea of 2-4 "Makro Mod Knobs" which are knobs that are available as drop downs in modulation targets, along with envelopes, LFOs and MIDI. Not sure if I would like to make them ModMatrix targets as well

If they're not available as MM Targets, what are they? Scalers?

I'm also thinking that a ModMatrix should be able to modulate another, from bottom to top, i.e. ModMatrix 1 can modulate ModMatrix 2 but not vice versa.

This might be going a little far, and maybe trying it out to see how useful it would be might be in order.

I still think that more slots and/or another page might be easier and more useful. Also useful would be to see the name of the preset on the MM title and to just link an MM slot to another (linking Source and Via assignments); the name could show this. Reshuffling by drag and drop would be cool, but likely out of the question.

Just suggestions of course!...

[stardustmedia]

Ok... I'm also in the game now. Bought it and looking forward to play around with it

[hakey]

An eco mode for the normal filter could make recreating that 303 preset a piece of cake.

A mode that actually sounded like a 303 would even be better.

[Sendy]

What you do is set phase reset on, detune to zero, then use a quick blip of an envelope to modulate detune amount.
...
Yeah, I know...

What is wrong? This is a legal trick, I used it in Zebra, but somehow wasn't able to produce something decent, because in Zebra there are many other ways to do many other features, so it is harder to stay focused, unlikely to using Hive.

Legal, but a lot of users would probably find it longwinded just to get a bit of tonal variation. To me it's like a game, to see what's possible. Probably not really neccecary in Zebra, as there are so many phase/scatter type effects anyway. Though the envelope "blip" can create an interesting transient which I often end up sculpting into a completely different sound.

Regarding a "Constant x2" in the via slot. I was already using velocity/modwheel in the via slot, so I could scale the modulation. So for me an x2 button for each slot would work better. Though it might add clutter.

I also felt the need for a way of inverting a modulation. In the patch I was discussing with the phase trick, when velocity is used as a scalar, harder playing produces softer results (more phase smearing), while soft playing made sharper sounds. So some way of inverting the mod might be handy, either another button, or perhaps extra mod sources like "Inverted Velocity" and "Inverted Modwheel"?