Hive preview (April 1 update)

[Tricky-Loops]

Hive will become the synth with the most simplified GUI and the most complicated modulation matrix that needs 100 pages of the manual...

(Seriously, isn't it strange that while some people are saying they don't need no more features, others are suggesting more and more features for the mod matrix?)

[rod_zero]

I am happy with Hive as it is. If i had to choose I would pick option 2.

But I really want more waveforms.

[Tricky-Loops]

But I really want more waveforms.

This, and more filter types!

For me playability and easy-to-use is the main thing, I want to get new sounds as fast as possible, I don't have time for hours of hours of fiddling around with the complication...err...modulation matrix. Of course I want to tweak the sounds and modulate them a bit but I don't need to modulate sequencer gates or modulation between one and the other modulation matrix.

For experimental glitch sounds there's Aalto and similar synths, Hive should be a hands-on-and-hands-up synth!

[pdxindy]

i read a lot that you should keep it simple, yes ok i think if you want it simple you have the option if you want it more complex you should get the option too cause if i want a simple VA synth i can get many of the freebies out there which sound not bad at all.... cause a saw is a saw, a sine is a sine (overall, of course some differences are there otherwise there wouldnt be a difference in sylenth1 and hive etc.).

You cannot have simple and complex at the same time. Even just knowing that the complex is there (even if hidden) changes things

[4damind]

Too many features are the wrong way. As Urs stated before, if people like to go deeper they should pick Dune2. Hive goes the "Sylenth way" which means: limited feature set. So it's more important to make things as easy as possible and remove all not so often needed parameters/features. But the given parameters must allow great sounding results (and yes, we speak about "as good as Sylenth or better").
IMO a bit snappier envelopes or a easier way instead of using the modulation matrix for different slopes would be great. Different filter types etc. is something which can be done under the hood without GUI modifications so I think this is something we see in the future.
Maybe that oscillators/filters can be fine tuned so they sounding closer to Sylenth ("brighter")

[Breeze]

This actually reminded me of something I would like to request: Give the option to switch a ModMatrix slot with another, basically to be able to re-arrange them.

Technically you can already do this with copy/paste as long as there's one free slot available. But at that point it could become like those slide puzzles with one missing piece. Methinks it could be more trouble than it's worth,

Hive will become the synth with the most simplified GUI and the most complicated modulation matrix that needs 100 pages of the manual...

(Seriously, isn't it strange that while some people are saying they don't need no more features, others are suggesting more and more features for the mod matrix?)

I think it's a little short-sighted to think that these discussions only apply to Hive. I see them as seeds for the fertile and interactive minds of Urs and his team who are in it with passion and dedication: new ideas are often what segregates an OK product from an evolutionary or even revolutionary one. What actually makes it into Hive will depend on the goals and limits U-he defines.

Personally when I run into limitations, I have a tendency to ask for more features and flexibility; but on the other hand there's something to be said for working within the limitations of what you're given, like kaiyoti's excellent "Plucked -Asian Plucky Strings" patch where he used delay to create a convincing fingered attack.

Funny: after reading the last batch of posts I had a daydream about Hive being like a real Hive, with many sub-chambers, bringing you deeper into the core of the engine as you feel intrepid and capable enough to go... could be a video game...

[Urs]

Maybe that oscillators/filters can be fine tuned so they sounding closer to Sylenth ("brighter")

Hehehe, have you compared them side by side, possibly with a spectrum analyzer? At 20kHz Hive's "Normal" filter is 3dB louder than Sylenth's when fully open. Thus Hive's most Sylenth-like basic filter opens wider and therefore Hive sound brighter. The same is true for the Clean filter up until about 17kHz (after that it fades quickly, because it's a different kind of filter). Hive's init preset is however much softer than Sylenth's, and maybe this is where we need to improve.

Many Sylenth presets however also use the EQ, and of course - as Sendy pointed out - we have yet to render the subbass naively.

[tehlord]

No, no, no! When it comes to macros and dance music, more is more! EDM people want to be able to pull up a preset and warp a sound around using 8 macros connected to hardware controllers.

Nobody I know uses them. If you do have macros, 3 is plenty.

+1

Actually, none is plenty.

People that use this synth most will be automating individual parameters within the DAW environment anyway.

My own view is that this synth does not need more oscillator types or more filter types. It doesn't really need anything bar a couple of tweaks to what's already there. Even if those tweaks don't happen it's fine as it is.

Except, make the LFO's faster. Up to audio rate. For reasons of Thrill.

[4damind]

Maybe that oscillators/filters can be fine tuned so they sounding closer to Sylenth ("brighter")

Hehehe, have you compared them side by side, possibly with a spectrum analyzer?

No, not at such level. I don't know if this are the filters, the oscillators, the envelopes or a combination of all which can be improved to sound closer.
There is of course always the failure quote that sounds are not matched 1:1 so they sounding different with Hive because they are not programmed in the same way.

The question is of course if people asking for this and if there are many requests to sound "100%" like Sylenth? If I read the threads, it seems there is more interest for some features and not so much to sound 100% like Sylenth.

[dwozzle]

Why would sounding like Sylenth be such a great goal? If that's the synth you want, use it.

[Photontic]

This actually reminded me of something I would like to request: Give the option to switch a ModMatrix slot with another, basically to be able to re-arrange them.

Technically you can already do this with copy/paste as long as there's one free slot available. But at that point it could become like those slide puzzles with one missing piece. Methinks it could be more trouble than it's worth,

Yeah, but you could end up with a right puzzle as you say.
Depending on how they have this part of the data setup it could either be completely simple to do (moving something around in an array) or complex because everything is connected to everything else and if you move one thing, 3 other things have to move as well, because there's this and that that needs to know about it...

As I said it's only really something I would suggest if the order ends up being something that matters. If it's purely for organizing it's hardly something high priority.

[Urs]

Maybe that oscillators/filters can be fine tuned so they sounding closer to Sylenth ("brighter")

Hehehe, have you compared them side by side, possibly with a spectrum analyzer?

No, not at such level. I don't know if this are the filters, the oscillators, the envelopes or a combination of all which can be improved to sound closer.
There is of course always the failure quote that sounds are not matched 1:1 so they sounding different with Hive because they are not programmed in the same way.

The question is of course if people asking for this and if there are many requests to sound "100%" like Sylenth? If I read the threads, it seems there is more interest for some features and not so much to sound 100% like Sylenth.

Well, had we released Hive half a year ago it could have sounded exactly like Sylenth. But many of the sonic aspects are not really what I would expect from a u-he synth. Had we done a 1:1 Sylenth clone I'd rather dropped the project and buried it for good.

Times have changed, technology has progressed. I will not do a filter with dated technology just for the sake of "killing a synth" when we can use tech that objectively has better properties and from our experience is on a whole different level.

A few months ago I have studied Sylenth and other synths to figure out what their "magic sauce" is. Sylenth obviously has a lot of that, but much of it is IMHO really only what people have gotten used to, and is not much related to sonic properties. I'm sure that if we counter this with something better, after a while people will get over their confirmation bias and appreciate it for what it is.

It takes some time to move from the old to the new, but those who go that way will surely be rewarded.

[GeorgeZ]

I have all the U-He synths and am really enjoying this new one... But due to deadlines and the fact I have a low IQ I've become something of a preset slut... When can we expect some official Hive presets?

I'm sure we will bundle some of the factory presets with an update in January, no matter if they're still work in progress or not.

I have some ready-ish. Should I submit or just share here?

[Urs]

I have all the U-He synths and am really enjoying this new one... But due to deadlines and the fact I have a low IQ I've become something of a preset slut... When can we expect some official Hive presets?

I'm sure we will bundle some of the factory presets with an update in January, no matter if they're still work in progress or not.

I have some ready-ish. Should I submit or just share here?

Both

[4damind]

Maybe that oscillators/filters can be fine tuned so they sounding closer to Sylenth ("brighter")

Hehehe, have you compared them side by side, possibly with a spectrum analyzer?

No, not at such level. I don't know if this are the filters, the oscillators, the envelopes or a combination of all which can be improved to sound closer.
There is of course always the failure quote that sounds are not matched 1:1 so they sounding different with Hive because they are not programmed in the same way.

The question is of course if people asking for this and if there are many requests to sound "100%" like Sylenth? If I read the threads, it seems there is more interest for some features and not so much to sound 100% like Sylenth.

Well, had we released Hive half a year ago it could have sounded exactly like Sylenth. But many of the sonic aspects are not really what I would expect from a u-he synth. Had we done a 1:1 Sylenth clone I'd rather dropped the project and buried it for good.

Times have changed, technology has progressed. I will not do a filter with dated technology just for the sake of "killing a synth" when we can use tech that objectively has better properties and from our experience is on a whole different level.

A few months ago I have studied Sylenth and other synths to figure out what their "magic sauce" is. Sylenth obviously has a lot of that, but much of it is IMHO really only what people have gotten used to, and is not much related to sonic properties. I'm sure that if we counter this with something better, after a while people will get over their confirmation bias and appreciate it for what it is.

It takes some time to move from the old to the new, but those who go that way will surely be rewarded.

I agree, but this is the "problem" with many similar post-Sylenth synth. We have seen this with Spire, Dune1 etc. Many people always comparing them with Sylenth and if there is only one part not sounding/working exactly the same, some people will not accept this as a Sylenth successor. There is still the wish to have a 1:1 Sylenth clone but better and with more features
But to be honest, this also the same with every new VA synth which will be compared with the Access Virus