KVR Audio

cowby · Post by **cowby** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:31 pm

Hello Folks,

Hate to read this kind of thread, right ?

I am not going to start another hw vs sw thread. But I'd like to ask if you come across any vst close to FS1R in terms of sound characteristics. May be you will say NONE.

I just wonder based on today's technology and computation power (CPU etc ..), still nothing comes close to it ? I read a thread not long ago in another forum (Gearxxxxx.com) that someone said Octopus has some kind of sound characteristics as found in FS1R. Care to have a peaceful discussion?

Regards!
Cowby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVgo-FBihU

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:38 pm

"VirSyn CUBE and TERA
* Big Tick Rhino 2 - it's partially FM based but has many tricks that make it astonishingly capable. Daniel Mauer has done some astonishing sounds from a relatively inexpensive synth.
* VAZ Modular 3
* Eve/Wusikstation with the FS1r sample set."

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70716

cowby · Post by **cowby** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:45 pm

Thanks! 10 years ago post!

Even though base on today's technology and computer power, I think only 2-3 soft synth companies can make a synth come close.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:46 pm

IMHO nothing in software sounds like a FS1R. And I say that as an owner of the actual unit.

beely · Post by **beely** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:02 pm

EvilDragon wrote:IMHO nothing in software sounds like a FS1R. And I say that as an owner of the actual unit.

That's not to say it couldn't be done. The FS1R is basically an FM box with some extra DSP chops. Maybe wait for Native Instruments to do an FM10*..?

* FM9 would be SY99 territory, FM + samples

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:04 pm

Well... formant synthesis as done by FS1R is a different pair of shoes. Also, FS1R has 8 voiced and 8 unvoiced operators, so it's not your usual FM box really.

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:07 pm

I have an FS1r and have spent much time learning it. Still frustrating at times. No doubt it is an excellent instrument but, IMO you are much better off with current Software synths.

The Formant sequencing is a gimmicky and poorly implemented - though strangely the formant sequences are the only elements that can be synced to tempo. People often confuse the Formant Sequencing with Format Operators - two different concepts. Whereas the formant sequencing is implemented by mapping the voices to a pre-recorded harmonic 'fingerprint', the Formant operators are in themselves like little flexible minisynths that can be used as FM modulators and carriers. Essentially, they are band-passed oscillators with an adjustable bandwidth.

Don't get me wrong - they are unique, but they can be closely approximated in software. I have spent many hours with Formant charts trying to get voice approximations, but mostly end-up with breathy oohs and aaahs that could be done with a nice sample pack and a decent FX chain.

IMO the Yamaha FM envelopes are old hat - give me the far more flexible envelopes of most software FM synths, anyday. As well as multiple instances and custom algorithms.

Also, the raw sound of the FS1r isn't so amazing. The killer feature on the unit is the incredible FX section.
BTW I absolutely loathe the filter on the Fs1r. Fine for shaving-off the top end, but I find it brittle and weedy even at low resonance settings.

I'm keeping my Fs1r, purely because I've invested so much time in it. It does sound unique, but that's due to the outputs. Does it sound better? That's purely subjective. In honesty, I would say - yes it does. Does this justify the currently inflated price? Absolutely not.

However, for convenience, I have gravitated towards two synths: Rob Papen Blue II and Linplug Octopus. For FX, nothing beats Melda IMO (fanboi alert

)

Octopus, to me, comes close to the raw Fs1r sound. What it has over Blue is that the filters can be used in the FM chain. But, overall, in terms of features, flexibility a speed of programming, Blue II smokes every other FM synth IMO - hardware included.

Best to try them all for yourself if you can. It's a matter of taste and how much time and effort you are prepared to invest.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:09 pm

Several of us suggested to a well known developer who is contemplating an FM synth for their next project that an FS1R emulation would be something worth exploring. Not sure it will ever happen but they are certainly capable of pulling off a high quality emulation. It's emulating the Formant Shaping Synthesis that would be the key.

FS1R's command very high prices on the second hand market and there must be a reason for that.I've looked into buying one. I see one is listed for $3,395 at e-bay now. That's just silly but another is a $355 but with 6 days left. Will be interesting to see what it's final selling price will be..........

E-Bay silly price

beely · Post by **beely** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:13 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Well... formant synthesis as done by FS1R is a different pair of shoes. Also, FS1R has 8 voiced and 8 unvoiced operators, so it's not your usual FM box really.

Sure. It's not a straight DX7 FM engine, but it's still an FM engine derived from that tech and the DSP for doing DX-style FM is mostly pretty well understood. A capable developer could model the FM engine and format synthesis stuff. I think really it's the format stuff people are mostly interested in, rather than the more standard FM-only type stuff... it probably doesn't matter to much what's going on in the non-format bits, could be any synthesis types for interesting results.

stimresp · Post by **stimresp** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:19 pm

oops, double post.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:25 pm

beely wrote: I think really it's the format stuff people are mostly interested in, rather than the more standard FM-only type stuff

That was our argument for developing an FS1R emulation since there are already a handful of DX emulations including a very nice free one..........

matamoris · Post by **matamoris** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:31 pm

beely wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:IMHO nothing in software sounds like a FS1R. And I say that as an owner of the actual unit.
That's not to say it couldn't be done. The FS1R is basically an FM box with some extra DSP chops. Maybe wait for Native Instruments to do an FM10*..?

* FM9 would be SY99 territory, FM + samples

I think Blue 2 already comes close to SY77/99. But it's not as warm or punchy, and it needs more waveforms.

overhishead · Post by **overhishead** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:11 pm

i've tried a lot of software FM synths. fs1r is fun, its really deep. the fixed algorithms aren't as easy to use as more recent software synths. i got tired of doing everything in the computer, and nothing sounds like the fs1r, there is no emulation for it, which is why i bought one. paid 900 USD in November and I'm glad to have it and its already January. doing everything in the computer was giving me claustrophobia, now i've got a fs1r, tg77, tx81z, fb01, D50, and a Kawai k5000r sitting next to me and it feels great. I loved FM synthesis so I decided to get these dedicated boxes and it feels great to have actual instruments. Gives occasion to actually fire up the A to D section on my audio interface.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:14 pm

cowby wrote:still nothing comes close to it ?

Maybe not, I think regular vsts sell more than three copies

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:44 pm

Teksonik wrote:into buying one. I see one is listed for $3,395 at e-bay now. That's just silly but another is a $355 but with 6 days left. Will be interesting to see what it's final selling price will be..........

E-Bay silly price

I saw that the other day and thought 'holy f**k'..years back when I was in the market, I was balking at $400.

The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....