KVR Audio

roger_milford · Post by **roger_milford** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:44 pm

I have a real weird problem with this plug in and have been mailing with Andrew and Denis about it and want to see if anyone else has had this happen.

I have two machines here, on the older one it installed with no problem. On my newer machine the plug in installs but will not work properly. The machine I can't get it to run on is a dual-xeon machine. Both run windows 7. The only difference I can find between both installs is where it says the version number on the working one.

The working one says SSE2 by the version.
The non working one says AVX by the version number.

It indicates it could be a chip processing problem maybe, the xeon machine supports SSE2 though so I have no idea what is happening and why it would do this.

By non-working what happens is no images ever appear in the info page and there is no wet sound at all only a dry signal no matter what preset is selected.

I don't know if anything can be done to get it working on the newer machine. It's a really odd problem and it's a shame as I was looking forward to using the power as on my older machine it glitches pretty badly at times.

Hopefully it can be sorted in time, my fingers are well and truly crossed this side as it's some great work 2C Audio have done.

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Hey Roger,

We are still looking into it for you. This is a weird one, since it works perfectly on your other machine.

We are very curious to get this resolved asap and hear reports of the glory of running KS on your 20-core/40-thread monster Xeon machine!!

Totally Jealous!! i'm only at dual 4-core on the windows side.

But I want to build a dual 18 core (= 36 core/72 thread) whenever the Broadwell Xeons ship, I guess in 9 months or so... Or maybe they will be even more than 18 core at that point... This is the kind of thing that excites me personally! I'm an extremist...

for those following at home: NO YOU DON'T NEED THIS KIND OF CPU POWER FOR KS!

(but if you want to run 50 instances real-time, plus many B2s and Aethers to create generative ambient music compositions/sculptures completely in real-time without bouncing, then the sky is the limit as to what is helpful...)

roger_milford · Post by **roger_milford** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:37 pm

Yeah thanks Andrew, I just threw it out there on here to see if it was a problem specific to this machine or if anyone else experienced it. It's a real odd one. We'll get there i'm sure.

Good luck with the new build down the line too, often they cause a lot more stresses when you move into the more unknown. That said when you optimise things which involves a lot of trial and error and watching core cpu metres it's great really until the next problem arises.

Anyway back on topic I hope the new plug-in is a real success for you over there as it's important to keep moving forward where sound design and sound manipulation is concerned. I'll give it some proper time on my older machine later this week.

krankyone · Post by **krankyone** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:30 pm

Andrew-

How do you want us to report problems? I'm not sure that you want issues reported in this thread?

-John

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:45 pm

krankyone wrote:Andrew-

How do you want us to report problems? I'm not sure that you want issues reported in this thread?

-John

Thanks kindly for asking!

The support email of course is always best.

http://www.2caudio.com/support/contact

...so we have it in our records and can reply as fast as possible.

Doesn't generaly seem to stop people from posting stuff here though

And that is ok for something brand new like this. It's ok for people to talk about things if they think other user's experiences can help. It happens inevitably and we don't have any secrets or anything. There is a lot of new technology in KS, and it's only been partially in the wild for a couple days now, so if community helps, great! We want this thing to be rock solid for all circumstances.

But this is not an official support thread, our email support is the official channel... so if I miss something here It is not my fault. I will be going to NAMM in a few days, and will be much less active here while I am in CA.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:33 pm

So the 64bit WAV limitation is just an artificial one ? To sell his 64bit WAV packs, presumably ?

arachnaut wrote:
Daags wrote:
Galbanum wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Why do they have to be 64 bit? That's a bit of a problem, I think most of my wav samples are 24-32 bit max. Would they just not load?
Need to be 64-bit, 2048-pt. Dem's da rules.
dem's da rules ?
is that a joke ?

anyways I'd like to know why too. You talk about standards. WAV might be so, but 64 bit ?
Umm. no. not really.
The copy of the RIFF (WAV) document I have does not limit the sample size in any way, except it must fit in a WORD (which I suppose is 16 bits?):
Code: Select all
Microsoft WAVE_FORMAT_PCM format

	The following sections describe the Microsoft WAVE_FORMAT_PCM format.  If the wFormatTag field of the <fmt-ck> is set to WAVE_FORMAT_PCM, then the waveform data consists of samples represented in pulse code modulation (PCM) format. For PCM waveform data, the <format-specific-fields> is defined as follows:

<PCM-format-specific> ->
	struct
	{
		WORD wBitsPerSample;	// Sample size
	}

	The wBitsPerSample field specifies the number of bits of data used to represent each sample of each channel. If there are multiple channels, the sample size is the same for each channel.

	For PCM data, the wAvgBytesPerSec field of the `fmt' chunk should be equal to the following formula rounded up to the next whole number:

	                             wBitsPerSample
	wChannels x wBitsPerSecond x --------------
	                                   8

lnikj · Post by **lnikj** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:42 pm

Daags wrote:So the 64bit WAV limitation is just an artificial one ? To sell his 64bit WAV packs, presumably ?

I don't think you've been paying attention to the usage of the waveforms in Kaleidoscope. Andrew has said that YMMV with using them - you're hardly being pressurised to purchase them.

krankyone · Post by **krankyone** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:49 pm

I posted here because I wasn't able to get the Contact page to work in Firefox. but I'm deleting the post because I was able to send the message using Chrome.

You'll probably need to add a Kaleidoscope category to the support page.

-John

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:54 pm

lnikj wrote:
Daags wrote:So the 64bit WAV limitation is just an artificial one ? To sell his 64bit WAV packs, presumably ?
I don't think you've been paying attention to the usage of the waveforms in Kaleidoscope. Andrew has said that YMMV with using them - you're hardly being pressurised to purchase them.

Au contraire, I understand exactly how they work (scales/tuning every 4 samples, if I'm not mistaken) ... which is why it's all the more baffling that it's a 64bit limitation on the WAVs used. We get mini novella replies to every other query or comment, but for the question of why the wavs must be 64 bit only we get 'dems da rules' and ignoring the request when it's bumped or repeated.

Speculation thrives in the lack of information.

rustman · Post by **rustman** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:01 pm

Honestly, I was a little pissed that he ignored my post on the subject too. Mine was a friendly, valid, pre-purchase question.

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:47 pm

Holly molly... an ocean of possilbility and you don't like the exact shade of blue we choose to make the water, and therefore imagine a conspiracy, huh?

We want Kaleidoscope to be a platform for extreme sound-design. We expect extreme things to be done with it. We use the absolutely most extreme file formats we can get away with. For .wav this means 64-bit. Notice for images we already support 16-bit per channel PNGs. This is also extreme. We as company make an official policy to encourage extreme fidelity in every way possible. Even when intentionally F-ing things up for creative purposes.

Has it occurred to you that we might have additional things planned for the waveforms?

That maybe, you know, that we are like a company and stuff, and try to think

like a company, and plan future features and even new products that might use the various resources I/we have made. Maybe like most intelligent companies out there we don't really like to talk too much about future plans?

You will note the library is named "2CAudio Resource Library" not "Kaleidoscope Resource Library". Why are images 1024*1024 when KS only uses 1024*512?

Why are waveforms 2048pt when tunings currently can only use 512??

etc.

You will also note Wav 64, while not as common as 16,24,32, is an open format. We could have easily decided to make it a custom 2CAudio format like Absynth, Alchemy, MetaSynth, Serum, Codex, Massive, etc etc all do...

If this really bothers you, you can batch

convert 32 or 24 or whatever you have to 64bit using Sound Forge or other editors. Nothing stops you from doing this?

Kaleidoscope is a product for the wold's best sound designers and whomever has apirations to join that group some day. I am going to sell these people the best formats I have available. The formats I would want to, the formats I do, use personally. To give them the best of my ablity. That's my decision.

There is the requested "mini novella".

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:19 pm

lnikj wrote:
Daags wrote: I don't think you've been paying attention to the usage of the waveforms in Kaleidoscope. Andrew has said that YMMV with using them - you're hardly being pressurised to purchase them.

Yes, true re not being pressured waveforms 2010 package. It's not even listed as an add-on to the direct KS purchase. You have to add it a separate purchase and there is no additional discount as a bundle for this.

To clarify "YMMV". This does not mean they are not useful. They can be EXTREMELY useful. To SOME users. I fully expect KS will be used in many of this summer's Hollywood blockbusters if they have not already made it through post production. Sound department use for film/tv/games is something completely different than music production. Here non-musical, atonal sound FX are VERY desirable, and waveform tuning is EXTREMELY powerful for this kind of thing. If you do music that might effectually make use of this kind of sound-design then they are also VERY useful for you.

If you want only to do musical/harmonious/pretty/euphonic things, then the complete waveform library at this exact moment, for sole purposes of using them only as waveform tunings is less interesting in my mind, as waveform tunings are almost never going to result in traditionally musical tonalities...

...but if you were to try to make a sound for the alien in the next prometheus movie or blade runner 2, or whatever, well, then they could be just what the doctor, or director, ordered...

so, they are AWESOME for some people, and for others, not so much... hence, no pressure...

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:25 pm

Galbanum wrote: If this really bothers you, you can batch convert 32 or 24 or whatever you have to 64bit using Sound Forge or other editors. Nothing stops you from doing this?

I've been looking into this, it is possible to upconvert a file to 64 bit format easily enough, but are you implying the quality would not be as good? tbh I'm a little confused about that though because if both are non lossy formats then wouldn't the quality be the same? What I can't seem to do is find a way to match the sample rate which my Mac is telling me should be 2,048. Every audio editor I have seems only to allow conversion between several fixed sample rates such as 16000 and 22050 - I can't seem to get them to convert to arbitrary numbers.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:34 pm

2048 is the sample length, not rate.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:37 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:2048 is the sample length,not rate.

I'm just going by what the Mac says when I rightclick and select 'Get info' - it says 'sample rate: 2048'

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