2CAudio Kaleidoscope | It's A Trip | Latest Update 1.1

[Andrew Souter]

I understand what you are saying but I note that this is the first time you've replied to a question with a value judgement.

I doubt that is philosophically true. I am sure I make all kinds of value judgements in everything I say/type. I am human after all (at least that's what my mom thinks... )

I assume since I have been playing with this design/concept for 3-4 years now, that I prob have some insights. So I share my thoughts kind of like a parent says "here is what I have learned, maybe it is helpful to you". If people disagree, they are of course more than free to try to do differently. But if trying differently requires our time to implement something out of a wish-list, we are also free to prioritize the wish-list in the order of what we think is most important. Right?

Anyway, this particular request is reasonably easy, so maybe we will do it soon. Although I think there were reasons other than my feeling that is not really all that useful that we did not do it already... but I can't quite remember...

anyway, this is a VERY creative product, and it is VERY open ended. So my style of communication on this is going to be a little more open than in the past like about verbs for example. So, I am speaking with you guys just like friends and thinking out loud and sharing ideas and trying to get some interesting dialogs going etc.

If someone suggests something/anything, know absolutely that it has been heard. And know that we will consider it sincerely.

If I say something in which the tone sounds strong or whatever, try to ignore that -- I don't mean it. I am probably smiling when I write it and I think of this a like an open classroom where we are all bouncing around ideas etc. Nothing is immutable. Everything is negotiable within reason. I very, very rarely get personally offended by anything, and I very, very rarely try to be offensive (it's really stupid for business... ) So think of our discussions as a playful socratic debates if you will. Your words will have influence, even if I don't say "ok here is a new build that has exactly what you asked for an hour ago."

We are listening and we like the engagement.

[lnikj]

great book on visualizing data and what the visualizations mean outside of quantities of individual points
such relations could never be understood through numbers alone
programs like KS and Metasynth give us the auditory lens
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156898 ... UTF8&psc=1

Thanks! That will make a great birthday present for my dad! He loves that sort of thing.

[then I'll … cough … borrow it, once he's read it]

[TwoToneshuzz]

Sounds very interesting!


One thing i don't like from a business point of view.

A purchase from Europe,in my case from Germany,i would need to pay in Dollar and Paypal is getting a horrendous convert fee and it will add a whopping 19% Vat too?
And i need to create an account and push "pay with Paypal" only to find out what the actual price is?

PayPal didn’t add any VAT when I purchased from the UK. That's pretty worrying for you if it does it in Germany. Does it do it with any purchase of software from the US?

I've bought some things from the US without Vat..For sellers to Europe a seller who follows the law has to collect the Vat at the time of sale and this gets forwarded to the buyers countries tax agency (Good idea and sound business practice). When international sellers follow the Vat collection rules this in a way levels the playing among developers internationally as for example German companies always have to collect the Vat.

in my opinion although the state of things right now with higher exchange rates make the price of software more expensive for EU residents, we've had it rather good for many years as far as buying things in US dollars are concerned. In my view If after all this time I have to pay a premium on a few purchases is it really such a problem? Kaleidoscope is so unique and heavily developed over years so here at least even at a higher price if you are interested in using it in the near future, just get it!

I suppose this exchange rate plus Vat issue makes the introductory offer of $200 even more attractive as it a least takes care of the Vat here in Denmark.

Hey we got cheaper fuel costs and a mild winter so thats a savings that is really going to make a noticeable difference in the individual economics!

[Shabdahbriah]

[insist]I still believe we should have backward/forward looping as an option, in many cases I find the looping back to the beginning of the image too obvious.[/insist]

Yes I would like to have a forward/backward feature as well.

+1

OK. It's not hard to do.

Denis wanted to do this already, but I overruled it. I think it is actually less interesting than it seems. Music and sound in general almost never does something and does the same thing exactly in reverse. Time generally flows in one direction. So while this seems fun, it very quickly gets boring and unlikely to be used.

If seamlessly tiling random images that don't tile is the goal there are actually better ways to do this IMHO, and we will explore those also...

But, it's simple to do, so I suppose we can add this... maybe it has some uses...

I understand what you are saying but I note that this is the first time you've replied to a question with a value judgement.

Many of the questions that have been asked (including my own) about 'missing' features have been answered either by us not fully understanding (not RTFM) the depth of the instrument and that those features are either already there or are catered for in a different way, or by an explanation of the computational load that those feature requests would demand.

On this occasion though you've made a value judgement about what you find musically valuable.

I don't want to sound like some raving post structuralist but you've released it now and it is up to all of us now to judge what features we find musically interesting.

Just saying …

First off, congratulations Andrew! KS is stunning (!) and definitely my next 'must have', and asap.

That said, I too would appreciate and use "backward/forward looping", as well as 'selectable' loop points, and variable 'randomization', within/without 'assigned' {user selected} loop points, if for no other reason than the potential 'serendipity' of it.

If seamlessly tiling random images that don't tile is the goal there are actually better ways to do this IMHO, and we will explore those also...

Indeed there are numerous methods/tools for "seamlessly tiling", which I employ with my images [architectural/astronomical/landscape/fractals], so please forgive me if this has been asked, but am I safe in assuming that ones own 'images' can be used with KS???

"Yes", would be the most desired response.

Thank you

[Andrew Souter]

but am I safe in assuming that ones own 'images' can be used with KS???

"Yes", would be the most desired response.

Yes.

[Shabdahbriah]

but am I safe in assuming that ones own 'images' can be used with KS???

"Yes", would be the most desired response.

Yes.

Yay. {does happy dance!}

[lnikj]

I understand what you are saying but I note that this is the first time you've replied to a question with a value judgement.

I doubt that is philosophically true. I am sure I make all kinds of value judgements in everything I say/type. I am human after all (at least that's what my mom thinks... )

I meant regarding feature requests specifically, but even there you're probably right!

I assume since I have been playing with this design/concept for 3-4 years now, that I prob have some insights. So I share my thoughts kind of like a parent says "here is what I have learned, maybe it is helpful to you". If people disagree, they are of course more than free to try to do differently. But if trying differently requires our time to implement something out of a wish-list, we are also free to prioritize the wish-list in the order of what we think is most important. Right?

Anyway, this particular request is reasonably easy, so maybe we will do it soon. Although I think there were reasons other than my feeling that is not really all that useful that we did not do it already... but I can't quite remember...

I suppose I am thinking that it works well in Iris, but there is probably some hyper technical reason that it wouldn't work as well in Kaleidoscope

anyway, this is a VERY creative product, and it is VERY open ended. So my style of communication on this is going to be a little more open than in the past like about verbs for example. So, I am speaking with you guys just like friends and thinking out loud and sharing ideas and trying to get some interesting dialogs going etc.

If someone suggests something/anything, know absolutely that it has been heard. And know that we will consider it sincerely.

I'm sure I speak for us all when I say that I love reading your posts. You are probably the most enthusiastically eloquent poster on KVR

If I say something in which the tone sounds strong or whatever, try to ignore that -- I don't mean it. I am probably smiling when I write it and I think of this a like an open classroom where we are all bouncing around ideas etc. Nothing is immutable. Everything is negotiable within reason. I very, very rarely get personally offended by anything, and I very, very rarely try to be offensive (it's really stupid for business... ) So think of our discussions as a playful socratic debates if you will. Your words will have influence, even if I don't say "ok here is a new build that has exactly what you asked for an hour ago."

We are listening and we like the engagement.

Can't promise we will reach the giddy lengths of the Camel thread here (for a few weeks anyway!) but there is more information on any page of this thread than on 280+ pages of that one

[jeremydb]

Hi,

Very interested in picking this up after spending some time with the demo and listening to all the impressive examples here (and on the 2caudio site). My main concern: I'm wondering what the timeframe for a Retina fix is; it's not much fun to use on my MBP at the moment.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[TwoToneshuzz]

Kaleidoscope and Audio Hijack bug alert.

Just a note about using my setup with Kaleidoscope hosted in Audio Hijack Pro. I can't recommend it now after working with it, there's a bug that causes Audio Hijack to crash after hosting Kaleidoscope and the only way to get Audio Hijack to boot again is to reinstall the application. I'm guessing this is something that will get ironed out. Audio Hijack has always in the past been rock solid, and Rogue Amoeba is pretty responsive as is 2C Galbanum so I'm sure this will get ironed out. I've used it for a couple of years hosting B2 and other plugs as a master house for my Numerology projects and have never run into any problems like this before..

[lnikj]

Kaleidoscope and Audio Hijack bug alert.

Just a note about using my setup with Kaleidoscope hosted in Audio Hijack Pro. I can't recommend it now after working with it, there's a bug that causes Audio Hijack to crash after hosting Kaleidoscope and the only way to get Audio Hijack to boot again is to reinstall the application. I'm guessing this is something that will get ironed out. Audio Hijack has always in the past been rock solid, and Rogue Amoeba is pretty responsive as is 2C Galbanum so I'm sure this will get ironed out. I've used it for a couple of years hosting B2 and other plugs as a master house for my Numerology projects and have never run into any problems like this before..

Fascinated that you are using Audio Hijack in this way. I've had it forever, though my OS is not new enough for the latest version. I've never used it much and then only for simple audio recording purposes. It never occurred to me to use it as part of my music workflow.

[TwoToneshuzz]

Kaleidoscope and Audio Hijack bug alert.

Just a note about using my setup with Kaleidoscope hosted in Audio Hijack Pro. I can't recommend it now after working with it, there's a bug that causes Audio Hijack to crash after hosting Kaleidoscope and the only way to get Audio Hijack to boot again is to reinstall the application. I'm guessing this is something that will get ironed out. Audio Hijack has always in the past been rock solid, and Rogue Amoeba is pretty responsive as is 2C Galbanum so I'm sure this will get ironed out. I've used it for a couple of years hosting B2 and other plugs as a master house for my Numerology projects and have never run into any problems like this before..

Fascinated that you are using Audio Hijack in this way. I've had it forever, though my OS is not new enough for the latest version. I've never used it much and then only for simple audio recording purposes. It never occurred to me to use it as part of my music workflow.

I like having it setup this way so I can have inserted effects on the Master bus. It mainly has been a work around when my host got maxed out CPU wise.. Remember to select a audio format suitable for the intended purpose in the Recording tab, I also direct it to a external disk dedicated to mix downs which seems to help with system performance as well..

[Banquet]

with Kaleidoscope using a waveform tuning file extracted from a waterphone gong

Sounds cool, how did you do that?

[Sampleconstruct]

with Kaleidoscope using a waveform tuning file extracted from a waterphone gong

Sounds cool, how did you do that?

Edited one of my waterphone gong samples in Wavelab, isolated a snippet from it about 2050 samples in length, omly the left channel, resampled it to 2048 Khz, then converted it to 64 Bit/mono, rendered and imported that into my KS user waveforms.
The resulting data is totally abstract and does not represent the original waterphone gong sound at all, but the abstract data created this way sounds quite miraculous when applied to the resonator's tunings.

[Phorous]

"Mathematics is the language of nature", as it has been said before...

Anytime anyone says that quote I think of the beginning of Sasha's GU Ibiza: BT - Fibonacci Sequence . Still one of my favorite mix comps from the golden era of prog.

[jtenney]

+1 on the possibilities of Audio Hijack. I've used it the same way for a long time, just straight audio capture. Interesting thought, using it to substitute for a bounce, and being able to control parameters as I go in real time, rather than laying down automation. It would be very simple, there wouldn't have to be any hosting involved of KS involved, just straight capture and then open the file in an audio editor... It could also work for programs with quirks, like Crusher X, where you can't automate side chain changes for example... This is an eye-opener, thanks!