Manage Audio/Sample Files - user error?

[pljones]

There's a setting here for "What about used audio files". I have this set to "Copy into session's audio sub-folder". I created a new project, saved it, creating a project folder. Then, using the media browser, selected some existing files for the tracks I wanted to work on, picking "Stream". I expected this to copy the file into the session's audio sub-folder and stream from there, leaving the existing files (and folder) untouched. It didn't. No files were copied and the Ovw and resample files were created in the original folder.

Is this behaviour correct / expected?

If I want to work on a large audio file that I don't want to use as a pitched or sliced sample, do I need to manually copy it each time? If I'm working on a project, I'll save versions as I go -- I was hoping the entire folder, including all audio files, would get saved safely each time, so I could revert back.

[MuTools]

There's a setting here for "What about used audio files". I have this set to "Copy into session's audio sub-folder". I created a new project, saved it, creating a project folder. Then, using the media browser, selected some existing files for the tracks I wanted to work on, picking "Stream". I expected this to copy the file into the session's audio sub-folder and stream from there, leaving the existing files (and folder) untouched. It didn't. No files were copied and the Ovw and resample files were created in the original folder.
Is this behaviour correct / expected?

Yes. The selected function is applied when you click ok, it's not a global setting that is applied lateron.

If I want to work on a large audio file that I don't want to use as a pitched or sliced sample, do I need to manually copy it each time? If I'm working on a project, I'll save versions as I go -- I was hoping the entire folder, including all audio files, would get saved safely each time, so I could revert back.

You can work in several ways, that's your freedom+choice. If you want to have fully separated sessions with each time new copies of the audio files, then give each version a new session folder and use Manage Audio Files to copy over the used audio files. Hope i explain well.

[pljones]

No, sorry, I've not understood your reply at all.

I expect the word "copy" to imply that the original file is in one place and a separate copy is placed elsewhere.

That does not happen.

It does not happen when the file is added to the project.

It does not happen when the project is saved.

[MuTools]

It happens when you click ok on the Manage Audio/Sample Files dialog.

[pljones]

Ah, okay - now I understand. I'd thought it was a preference not an action -- the wording makes it look like "what do you want to happen" as a general rule, rather than as a result of clicking OK right now. "Manage" also is the same word used for setting shortcuts -- once set, they are there; I don't have to run the "manage" dialog each time I want my shortcuts to take effect. I'd suggest changing the wording at least. I'd really like the option -- stored per session but set "until changed" -- to have the files managed within their session folder without having to "do something to make it happen" every time.

Possibly the worst part of the current scheme, for me, is that I can't tell MuLab not to write to the source folder. Until I've chosen a file, it has nothing to copy. Once I've chosen the file, it's written to the source folder.

[MuTools]

Ah, okay - now I understand. I'd thought it was a preference not an action

Really? After clicking OK you get a detailed report that tells how many audio files have been moved/copied etc. Didn't that make it clear to you that this dialog is about an action that takes place on clicking OK? Also the info in the docs tells it's about an immediate action: http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/main-menu.html
Agreed?

Possibly the worst part of the current scheme, for me, is that I can't tell MuLab not to write to the source folder. Until I've chosen a file, it has nothing to copy. Once I've chosen the file, it's written to the source folder.

To be honnest i don't understand what you mean with this. When you import an audio file, nothing is "written", it's just read from the source folder.

[pljones]

After clicking OK you get a detailed report that tells how many audio files have been moved/copied etc.

The report was all zeros and made no sense as, at the time, I did not understand the intention. Hence it was not explanatory at all, no.

To be honnest i don't understand what you mean with this. When you import an audio file, nothing is "written", it's just read from the source folder.

When I browse to a folder, select a file, drag it to the composer and drop it, two things happen: an Ovw file is created and, if needed, a -resample file is created. These two files are written to the folder I dragged the selected file from. Until I select the file and drag it to the composer, it is not part of the composition/session and, as such, is not being managed by the "Manage Files" dialog, so has not been copied to the session folder. That means, for example, if I'm using a file from a read-only, slow- or limited-write device, you're writing to (or trying, at least) a folder that I have only asked you to read from. That's why I say it's probably the worst aspect of it.

This is precisely why I want the source file imported into the session *before* I use "Manage Files" because, by then, it's too late.

This is why it would be better to have it as a preference (at session / composition level) and copy the file when I drag it into the composition, before writing the Ovw (and -resample) file. That is, if I've saved the composition -- if not, it's my own fault and you've nowhere else to put them.

[MuTools]

When I browse to a folder, select a file, drag it to the composer and drop it, two things happen: an Ovw file is created and, if needed, a -resample file is created. These two files are written to the folder I dragged the selected file from. Until I select the file and drag it to the composer, it is not part of the composition/session and, as such, is not being managed by the "Manage Files" dialog, so has not been copied to the session folder. That means, for example, if I'm using a file from a read-only, slow- or limited-write device, you're writing to (or trying, at least) a folder that I have only asked you to read from. That's why I say it's probably the worst aspect of it.

Thx for elaborating, now i understand your point.

Wrt the .OVW file (graphic overview file): This file is only created when you delete an audio file object from RAM or close the session, not yet when you import the audio file so you still have the time to copy the audio file to the session audio folder if you want that.

Wrt the eventually created -resampled file if samplerates differ: I have some other notes on the wishlist regarding the -resampled files and will research an alternative solution for the case an audio file's samplerate differs from the audio engine samplerate, maybe by doing realtime resampling, which would also solve the issue you mentioned. Until then: If you're using audio files with different samplerate on a read-only drive (specific case), it's best to manually copy them to the session audio folder (or somewhere else if you want) before using them.

[MuTools]

Wrt the .OVW file (graphic overview file): This file is only created when you delete an audio file object from RAM or close the session, not yet when you import the audio file so you still have the time to copy the audio file to the session audio folder if you want that.

I'm even evaluating to abandon creating the OVW files.

[pljones]

I don't mind the files, I'd just like them (particularly the MuLab-created ones) put in the session folder. I'd have no objection at all then . I'd also be mildly cautious as I do work on audio files up to one hour long (and several of them per session). Would not having the .Ovw written out mean recomputing it each time the session was opened? For a one hour file, it's not that fast.

[MuTools]

I don't mind the files, I'd just like them (particularly the MuLab-created ones) put in the session folder.

I've given this further thought and will keep things as they work now:
The OVW files are created in the same folder as the audio file. If you want them in the session audio folder then move the audio files to the session audio folder using the Manage Audio/Sample Files dialog.

However i did change 2 things: In the next version there is a new "Create Audio File Overview Length Threshold" preference that let you define when to create OVW files. It's expressed in seconds and when the audio file is shorter than that length threshold, no OVW file is created.

On top of that i've also optimized the creation of the overview data in RAM (which is necessary anyway) and it's faster now. That's why i've given the "Create Audio File Overview Length Threshold" a default value of 600 seconds = 10 minutes. So practically, in most cases no OVW file will be created anymore, which is a welcome simplification for the user, imho. But if you have long audio files on a rather slow drive then you can still take advantage of saving the graphic overview data in a OVW file.