2CAudio Kaleidoscope | It's A Trip | Latest Update 1.1

[Andrew Souter]

I turned a carlos super just into a txt from a scl. Imported it into KS and it plays a half step sharp. What's up with that?
Also how do I get these to default to other root notes?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhx7cim01aqb0 ... r.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xciawjnfg5ue ... m.txt?dl=0

! carlos_super.scl
!
Carlos Super Just
12
!
17/16
9/8
6/5
5/4
4/3
11/8
3/2
13/8
5/3
7/4
15/8
2/1

The scale, as some Scala scales do for some odd reason, does not start with the tonic 1/1. It ends with the tonic, up an octave: 2/1. This is a strange way to do things IMHO.

rewrite it like this:

1/1
17/16
9/8
6/5
5/4
4/3
11/8
3/2
13/8
5/3
7/4
15/8

you will then get what you expect...

[arachnaut]

I turned a carlos super just into a txt from a scl. Imported it into KS and it plays a half step sharp. What's up with that?
Also how do I get these to default to other root notes?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhx7cim01aqb0 ... r.txt?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xciawjnfg5ue ... m.txt?dl=0

! carlos_super.scl
!
Carlos Super Just
12
!
17/16
9/8
6/5
5/4
4/3
11/8
3/2
13/8
5/3
7/4
15/8
2/1

The scale, as some Scala scales do for some odd reason, does not start with the tonic 1/1. It ends with the tonic, up an octave: 2/1. This is a strange way to do things IMHO.

rewrite it like this:

1/1
17/16
9/8
6/5
5/4
4/3
11/8
3/2
13/8
5/3
7/4
15/8

you will then get what you expect...

This post is a keeper.

[jackmazzotti]

Andrew, thank you for the response and explanation. I really hope you consider releasing your vast tuning library in other formats. Kontakt uses txt so no worries there but omnisphere uses .tun, rapture and serum use .scl and absynth has it's own format .gly.
So I assume 1/1 is because KS uses that to construct the scale off of the selected root. I do not know how to change root notes in .scl since it is midi based. The super just scale is based off of C. How can I change that to A, for instance, in the .scl file? I guess the simple solution would be to change the pitch inside the synth itself which would transpose the scale without changing the ratios.

[Andrew Souter]

Andrew, thank you for the response and explanation. I really hope you consider releasing your vast tuning library in other formats. Kontakt uses txt so no worries there but omnisphere uses .tun, rapture and serum use .scl and absynth has it's own format .gly.
So I assume 1/1 is because KS uses that to construct the scale off of the selected root. I do not know how to change root notes in .scl since it is midi based. The super just scale is based off of C. How can I change that to A, for instance, in the .scl file? I guess the simple solution would be to change the pitch inside the synth itself which would transpose the scale without changing the ratios.

I don't know exactly what you mean. Starting or ending with the tonic does NOT shift the scale by 3 semitones (A-C). It shifts it by one. This has nothing to do with trying to adjust the tonic. It is simply how many scala files are defined. I have no idea what the logic for this is, and I find it to be a bad idea.

In KS all ratios are RELATIVE to the reference freq. The relative ratio from a line in the tuning/scale file multiplied by the reference freq in hertz will give the absolute frequency value in in hertz for each line. Therefore we do not need to make a C Major, C# Major, D Major, D# Major etc scale. We simply need to make on Major scale (for each tuning system we might like to use, such as JI, or ET etc.)

I have to believe this the same for other synths. etc. There should be some way to specific the tonic. If there is not then you must define the frequencies for all 128 MIDI notes. And if you are dealing with Just Intonation, then the ratios of each note WILL change depending on which key you are trying to work with.

This can get quite confusing for Just Intonation. Let's say you want to use Just Intonation and you want to use the standard A-440 reference. Let's say you are in A. This is easy:

Note Numerator Denominaotr Ref Freq
A 1 1 440 440.000
A# 16 15 440 469.333
B 9 8 440 495.000
C 6 5 440 528.000
C# 5 4 440 550.000
D 4 3 440 586.667
D# 45 32 440 618.750
E 3 2 440 660.000
F 8 5 440 704.000
F# 5 3 440 733.333
G 9 5 440 792.000
G# 15 8 440 825.000
A 2 1 440 880.000
A# 32 15 440 938.667
B 18 8 440 990.000
C 12 5 440 1,056.000
C# 10 4 440 1,100.000
D 8 3 440 1,173.333
D# 90 32 440 1,237.500
E 6 2 440 1,320.000
F 16 5 440 1,408.000
F# 10 3 440 1,466.667
G 18 5 440 1,584.000
G# 30 8 440 1,650.000
A 4 1 440 1,760.000
A# 64 15 440 1,877.333
B 36 8 440 1,980.000
C 24 5 440 2,112.000
C# 20 4 440 2,200.000
D 16 3 440 2,346.667
D# 180 32 440 2,475.000
E 12 2 440 2,640.000
F 32 5 440 2,816.000
F# 20 3 440 2,933.333
G 36 5 440 3,168.000
G# 60 8 440 3,300.000
A 8 1 440 3,520.000
etc

What happens if you want to use the key of C? All absolute frees change in just intonation. The first question is what absolute Freq does C equal?

Is it

440 * 2^(-3/12) // Three ET semitones down from the A440 ref.


Or is it

440 * 5/6 // Just Intonation minor third down


Or is it something arbitrary such as

C= 256hz

etc?

If you are dealing with synths and tuning systems that have to answer these questions, like TUN, etc I don't have any "right" answer to give you. There is no "correct answer". It is up for interpretation.

So, it's best to keep the discussion limited to how we do things in KS instead of trying to solve this for everyone else also. At least at this point.

In, KS we have REALTIVE ratios, and we have an Absolute reference freq (or frees in the case of waveform tuning.) IMHO, this is the most flexible way to do things. It is simple to let the ref freq. be calculated for you in normal ET MIDI note values based on A440. Simply keep the tuning pref set to 440 on the info page and use Musical Note tuning and you are good to go for any note/tonic you would like to use. If you want a none standard tuning ref for a few project, use Hertz mode and use a calculator or MS Excel to calculate whatever ref freq you would like use.

If you are feeling uber geeky try E = 2.7182818284

If you want to talk to dolphins, try A = 432 or C = 256

If you want to communicate with Wager, get out a Ouija board and try A = 445

If you are having a really bad day (or want to have a very bad day) try F# = 666.666.

Try whatever you like. It is simply in KS:

Relative Line Ratio * Absolute Reference Freq = freq for the given line...

[Andrew Souter]

For the record, at this point in my learning/exploration, I do not find any special significance in absolute frequency numbers in Hertz. I don't think there is anything magical about A = 432 or anything else. IMHO "Magic" if you would like to call it that, is found perhaps in specific relative ratios, but not in specific absolute hertz values.

Everything is relative, philosophically speaking...

that is my current inclination at least...

[rustman]

For the record, at this point in my learning/exploration, I do not find any special significance in absolute frequency numbers in Hertz. I don't think there is anything magical about A = 432 or anything else. IMHO "Magic" if you would like to call it that, is found perhaps in specific relative ratios, but not in specific absolute hertz values.

Everything is relative, philosophically speaking...

that is my current inclination at least...

That makes two of us.

[Nightpolymath]

Does anyone know the full download size for the Architecture Waveforms 2010 edition? (64 bit WAV option). My understanding is that this is the only option to use for Kaleidoscope.

[Nightpolymath]

Am also still trying to get my head around to thinking in four (?) dimensions (X/Y axis, brightness and hue) and trying to relate that to what I normally picture as envelops and modulators both for amps and filter settings. I will get there eventually.

So far this has proven to be an immensely powerful tool, and even more so once MIDI import is built into it.

[Andrew Souter]

Does anyone know the full download size for the Architecture Waveforms 2010 edition? (64 bit WAV option).

About 309MB zipped.

My understanding is that this is the only option to use for Kaleidoscope.

Correct...

[arachnaut]

Am also still trying to get my head around to thinking in four (?) dimensions (X/Y axis, brightness and hue) and trying to relate that to what I normally picture as envelops and modulators both for amps and filter settings. I will get there eventually.

So far this has proven to be an immensely powerful tool, and even more so once MIDI import is built into it.

The Y axis represents each of 512 resonators or frequency bands. Low notes on bottom, high notes on top.
The X axis represents time - how the resonators respond at any moment in time.

At the intersection of X and Y you get the value for that resonator - brightness is the 'gain', hue is the channel.

In addition, the red tuning marks are the resonators that are enabled based on the tuning requirements.

I don't know what you mean by MIDI import. What would the MIDI data do?

[Krakatau]

a little off-topic, i couldn't resist !

Everything is relative, philosophically speaking...

...isn't this the expression of an absolute truth ?

[Nightpolymath]

I don't know what you mean by MIDI import. What would the MIDI data do?

There is a hint that in future MIDI data may be imported and used as image maps. (Tuning section, page 27, third paragraph from the bottom in the Kaleidoscope User Manual).

[Andrew Souter]

I don't know what you mean by MIDI import. What would the MIDI data do?

There is a hint that in future MIDI data may be imported and used as image maps. (Tuning section, page 27, third paragraph from the bottom in the Kaleidoscope User Manual).

yes, planned...

[jackmazzotti]

If you want to talk to dolphins, try A = 432 or C = 256

I talk to dolphins in my dreams and their spirit guardians
I do prefer A432 and JI as well.

[jackmazzotti]

If you want to talk to dolphins, try A = 432 or C = 256

I talk to dolphins in my dreams and their spirit guardians
maybe I'll talk to them again during my next float tank journey
I do prefer A432 and JI as well.