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Musical Gym wrote:Any examples of KS being used as complement to more traditionally arranged instrumental piece?
Can KS be controlled to follow chord changes?
In the electronic/pop-tronica music context check this one:

https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/as1-hardwired

This uses standard chord-progression structures...


The way to do this in KS is to render each chord you need to fit the existing music strucutre and then cross-fade the rendered result in your DAW.

I like to think of the "musical" scale tuning in KS/AV1 in three classes:

1) Melodic
2) Chordal
3) Harmonic

Melodic scale provide ALL notes in a given scale. These are great for allowing KS to generate new compositional ideas. You will not typically have purposeful control over exactly what is happening -- unless you manually design images to achieve specific melodies and chord progressions that you want --but if this is the case, it is much better to simply use a normal synth and play the material yourself. The point of the melodic tunings is to help you to discover new directions for your composition and playing that you might not have come up with yourself. This is absolutely NOT cheating in any way. Music appreciation and composition is based very much on experience. If you listen only to radio and are familiar only with I-IV-V chord progressions in a major key, then your compositional ideas are likely to be quite limited. KS can expose you to all sorts of new structures and tonalities that you might not have been exposed to otherwise. This is very powerful. KS might even inspire the direction for some new melody/chord-progression, and then you might start playing it on piano, and the final composition/production might not even use any of the KS sources any more. Ever consider that? KS is actually a VERY good music theory teacher in this manner. :tu: :tu:

Chordal scales are useful to use KS as an advanced orchestration tool to augment and embellish existing music structures. These are what you want to use normally if you are working on Remixes, or adding to existing songs. You need to render different versions for each chord used in your song and then cross-fade.

Harmonic scales are simply members of the harmonic series (integers). They should be considered spectrally as a single musical note. They are quite nice to bass drones, and rhythmic pulses etc. You can change these the same way as with chordal tunings.

I am working on AV2 now. I have made a ridiculous amount of new musical tunings that cover more or less EVERYTHING possible within western music, as well as many non-western influences. This is stuff I began in 2011, but I am now finishing.

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lnikj wrote:The division of time into seconds, or the categorisation of frequencies as hertz lacks any ontological basis, but that does not preclude the frequency represented by a particular hertz value as having some sort of physical significance.
Of course. Agree. A frequency, however we measure it, has physical significance. It has a wavelength, which we can measure the length of in some other artificially contrived measurement unit. :wink: Physical objects including biological systems, as a whole, or in part, have resonant frequencies. One day medicine will likely work in these terms. But this is again best thought of in relative terms. A wavelength of X is relative to some other property Y of the system we are interested in studying/exploiting...
lnikj wrote: Unless somebody ascribes some sort of numerological significance to the number '432',
unfortunately that is what I see happening.

and I am VERY much a "significance of numbers" kind of guy. But we need to speak only about pure numbers in this context, and their RELATIVE relationship to other numbers. A nice integer number measurement in some human created measurement unit, is usually the first sign something is wrong with the logic of whatever idea/statement/product is being espoused/marketed...
lnikj wrote: it’s not the 432 that it is important, but the frequency represented by it, which we could represent in Planck units, moments, jiffies or some other time unit
right, much more probable at least.. who knows if it is true or not...

lnikj wrote: unrelated to the abritrary division of time into 12/24/60/60 (which has a history going through the ancient Egyptians, Hipparchus, Ptolemy, Al-Biruni and Roger Bacon.)
Very, very smart people came up with this stuff BTW... 12,24,60,72 etc are indeed VERY nice numbers for various reasons. It's not an accident we have 12 notes in octave, 12 signs of zodiac, 12 disciples, 12, 12, 12... or 72 names of god, etc etc. Some degree of mathematical sophistication seems to have been involved in choosing such numbers long, long ago... This stuff is quite interesting to think about, and rather inspirational. Some people just take it a bit far, and start talking to dolphins etc.

Why do you think we use 480/960/1920 ticks in most sequencers? Why is the CD sample rate 44100? Bc these numbers are highly divisible into integer parts:

2*2*3*3*5*5*7*7 = 44100 for example...

this is quite convenient, and not by accident. 12 and 30 or 60 are chosen for the same reason. Products of small prime powers, are very useful numbers...
lnikj wrote: Cats' mews, dogs' whines, babies crying - these all evolved to occur at frequencies that we find particularly unpleasant. A resonant frequency did for Galloping Gertie. Then there is that probably apocryphal story about Throbbing Gristle's experiments with infrasound...

All of these sounds have some degree of pitch bend/warble... so i it better to say we find particular ranges of freqs xyz adjective... not some exact freq.
lnikj wrote: Whether 432 or 440 matters is not decided by the choice of measurement unit. The argument about vocalists is far more convincing than speculations about Schumann resonances or 432 being a multiple of the 'sacred' Vedic 108.
yes, maybe something "in the range of 432 hz" has some significance somehow. maybe. But there is nothing magical about exactly 432 hertz. And it is certainly not bc it is 4* some number in the Rig Veda or whatever... That is my primary point.
Last edited by Andrew Souter on Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cinebient wrote:I think i need hundread years to explore kaleidoscope ;)

Thanks! me too! :tu:

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double

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Still don't bought it..... but i will for sure before the intro price end. Just thinking about the KS Architecture 1. Are there additional presets too? Half the time i still don't know how this tool works..... but i feel a bit like a bad scientist while using it :lol:

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Galbanum wrote: I like to think of the "musical" scale tuning in KS/AV1 in three classes:

1) Melodic
2) Chordal
3) Harmonic

Melodic scale provide ALL notes in a given scale. These are great for allowing KS to generate new compositional ideas. You will not typically have purposeful control over exactly what is happening -- unless you manually design images to achieve specific melodies and chord progressions that you want --but if this is the case, it is much better to simply use a normal synth and play the material yourself. The point of the melodic tunings is to help you to discover new directions for your composition and playing that you might not have come up with yourself. This is absolutely NOT cheating in any way. Music appreciation and composition is based very much on experience. If you listen only to radio and are familiar only with I-IV-V chord progressions in a major key, then your compositional ideas are likely to be quite limited. KS can expose you to all sorts of new structures and tonalities that you might not have been exposed to otherwise. This is very powerful. KS might even inspire the direction for some new melody/chord-progression, and then you might start playing it on piano, and the final composition/production might not even use any of the KS sources any more. Ever consider that? KS is actually a VERY good music theory teacher in this manner. :tu: :tu:

Chordal scales are useful to use KS as an advanced orchestration tool to augment and embellish existing music structures. These are what you want to use normally if you are working on Remixes, or adding to existing songs. You need to render different versions for each chord used in your song and then cross-fade.

Harmonic scales are simply members of the harmonic series (integers). They should be considered spectrally as a single musical note. They are quite nice to bass drones, and rhythmic pulses etc. You can change these the same way as with chordal tunings.

I am working on AV2 now. I have made a ridiculous amount of new musical tunings that cover more or less EVERYTHING possible within western music, as well as many non-western influences. This is stuff I began in 2011, but I am now finishing.
Just in case, i assume it won't be a big pain to make presets matching a specific scale of a specific type,on a send/return mixing configuration of static modes certainly, and likely even more...

This is what i'm dealing with since a long time by now in a relatively similar way using IRs created from scratch and quite comparable to static mode presets in KS, working as sympathetic strings

Here an example : https://soundcloud.com/perbuatan1883/a-slow-extasy

As you might notice, such a technique matches any compositions, altered only by modal transposition, the Impulse responses involved being focus on a scale without being bounded by a modal transposition or another (in this peculiar case this tune is moving between Ionian and Dorian mode of a Major Scale i don't remember which one by ear :oops: )

As far as i experienced, i'm bounded in this peculiar field by the inherent limitations of the IRs technique, but it basically gives a huge variety of timbral and textural variation that delay-based sympathetic resonnances can't give in itself, without other treatments or modulations, it seems that KS has potentially surpassed these primary limitations, used appropriately, though I didn't investigate KS deep enough to see what it is really capable of on that focus

Once again, on dry/wet mix configurations that tend to avoid too complex responses of dynamic modes, but not necessarily...

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I loaded the demo and tried to run it in Sonar X3. I inserted Kaleidoscope, and as soon as I enabled KS, I heard brief audio, then Sonar indicated that the audio engine had shut down unexpectedly due to dropouts. Any suggestions are welcome.
Keith
Glendale, AZ USA

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kmmcdonald wrote:I loaded the demo and tried to run it in Sonar X3. I inserted Kaleidoscope, and as soon as I enabled KS, I heard brief audio, then Sonar indicated that the audio engine had shut down unexpectedly due to dropouts. Any suggestions are welcome.

Set both your host/hardware buffer and the KS buffer to 1024. Reload both.

Any better?

It yes, feel free to try both set to 512, and 256 as well.

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Cinebient wrote:Still don't bought it..... but i will for sure before the intro price end. Just thinking about the KS Architecture 1. Are there additional presets too?
No. Not in AV1. Just Images, Scale Tunings, and Waveforms.

The Kaleidoscope Demo contains: • 747 Total Files • 250 Presets • 347 Images • 115 Scales • 35 Waveforms

Kaleidoscope Retail contains: • 2,477 Total Files • 1,166 Presets • 945 Images • 254 Scales • 92 Waveforms

Architecture Volume 01 KS contains: • 14,059 Total Files • 7,696 Images • 4,545 Scales • 1,818 Waveforms

Architecture Waveforms 2010 contains: • 25,724 Waveforms

Cinebient wrote: Half the time i still don't know how this tool works..... but i feel a bit like a bad scientist while using it :lol:

If you mean, "mad scientist" that is ok. That is expected/desired. :D

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Galbanum:

KS seems to work fine with the ASIO buffer set to 512, and the KS buffer set to 1024. Thanks.
Keith
Glendale, AZ USA

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Thanks for your detailed and instructive reply with supporting composition Andrew, much appreciated.

@Krakatau: cool composition, thanks for sharing

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Musical Gym wrote:Is there a 2CAudio forum?

I get a 404 when clicking Community Forum link at 2CAudio.com.

More Info link for Architecture Waveforms is dead. Is there a link for more info?
+1

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Musical Gym wrote:Is there a 2CAudio forum?
No.
Musical Gym wrote: I get a 404 when clicking Community Forum link at 2CAudio.com.1
What link?
Musical Gym wrote: More Info link for Architecture Waveforms is dead.
Where?
Musical Gym wrote: Is there a link for more info?
http://galbanum.com/products/architecturewaveforms2010

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http://www.galbanum.com/community/ 404

http://www.galbanum.com/shop/product_in ... ucts_id=78 More Info graphic

thanks

Since you don't have a user forum, you can start one here at KVR after requesting a developer account and contacting Ben.

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Musical Gym wrote:http://www.galbanum.com/community/ 404

http://www.galbanum.com/shop/product_in ... ucts_id=78 More Info graphic

thanks

Since you don't have a user forum, you can start one here at KVR after requesting a developer account and contacting Ben.
+1

A sensible request, IMO

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