MuTools

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:20 pm

With Mulab and the build in MUX all work ok(i use as admin). When i use in Mulab or other DAW mux as a VST instrument(I test MUX 6.1.x and 6.3.6) the CTRL key is not recognize by Nora. i test 32 bit.

I test Nora 2.5 Demo and i try copy a pattern in the Pattern Editor. what nora is and how can download the demo you can see here

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=425600

Copy is done by click on the old pattern and hold mouse button press. now press and hold CTRL Key and release left mouse button over the new pattern slot.

inline help show text of a button. this work not when MUX is load as VST instrument. when click in a window once, then when move the mouse over a button does not bring helptext. It work when use in Mulab or mulab builtin MUX

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:13 am

Have you no idea what can be the diffrence so it work with build in MUX ok, but with MUX as instrument not ?. So it maybe is better to information programmer of Nora, maybe he can tell what he do, or he change ?

maybe Problem can happen with other VST that use CTRL key for some functions too

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:18 am

I had a quick look at the Mu code and don't see a reason why there could be a problem. Yes pls also contact the plug developer.

squaredheads · Post by **squaredheads** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:37 pm

Hello,

I didn't test it yet using MuLab, but I would like clarify some details that could help us to find the problem.

About the Ctrl key. Nora requires that the Plugin can have the keyboard focus. Please, could you try to copy notes in the Phrase Editor (aka "piano roll")? You can do it in the same way that with patterns, start to drag them, and then press Ctrl. Repeat the same test using the ALT while you change the size of a note, grabbing them from an extreme. Does Ctrl work? Does Alt work?

If note of them work, it means that MuLab isn't allowing the keyboard modifiers reach the plugin (is there any option?) and/or Nora cannot have the keyboard focus. However, if Ctrl key works in the Phrase Editor but it doesn't work while dragging pattern is almost sure it's Nora mistake.

About the inline help: there is two features in Nora for help that aren't the same, tooltips and inline help. Both can be enabled/disabled from the help menu. Tooltips are those small piece of text that appears when you hover the mouse over a button (make you sure you have them enabled). Inline Help is a sub-window inside Nora that show more text and more help for the button/area where you're hovering your cursor. With this information, please let me know what's working.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:21 pm

squaredheads wrote:About the Ctrl key. Nora requires that the Plugin can have the keyboard focus.

I have a question:

Most hosts add some extra plugin controls near the actual plugin editor. This is done in the main (floating) plugin window (=host plugin window), which has a child window, and its that child window that is used by the plugin (=child plugin window).

Ok now if the user selects that plugin window by clicking its title bar (=host plugin window), then were should the keyboard focus go? To the host plugin window or to the child plugin window? They both want/need keyboard focus, so which one should be prioritized and why?

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:31 am

squaredheads wrote:Hello,

I didn't test it yet using MuLab, but I would like clarify some details that could help us to find the problem.

About the Ctrl key. Nora requires that the Plugin can have the keyboard focus. Please, could you try to copy notes in the Phrase Editor (aka "piano roll")? You can do it in the same way that with patterns, start to drag them, and then press Ctrl. Repeat the same test using the ALT while you change the size of a note, grabbing them from an extreme. Does Ctrl work? Does Alt work?

If note of them work, it means that MuLab isn't allowing the keyboard modifiers reach the plugin (is there any option?) and/or Nora cannot have the keyboard focus. However, if Ctrl key works in the Phrase Editor but it doesn't work while dragging pattern is almost sure it's Nora mistake.

About the inline help: there is two features in Nora for help that aren't the same, tooltips and inline help. Both can be enabled/disabled from the help menu. Tooltips are those small piece of text that appears when you hover the mouse over a button (make you sure you have them enabled). Inline Help is a sub-window inside Nora that show more text and more help for the button/area where you're hovering your cursor. With this information, please let me know what's working.

I try copy a note in phrase editor with MUX as instrument. The CTRL key is ignore, alt too and copy not work. only note is move. The help problem: I have enable tooltips. when i enable inline help, it work same wrong as tooltips. I notice that the highlight of the button text work, when mouse is over a button. but inline or tooltips are not show, after 1. press in a window.

squaredheads · Post by **squaredheads** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:41 pm

mutools wrote:Ok now if the user selects that plugin window by clicking its title bar (=host plugin window), then were should the keyboard focus go? To the host plugin window or to the child plugin window? They both want/need keyboard focus, so which one should be prioritized and why?

If I would develop a host, the focus would to the host plugin window with three subroutines:
1. If the host doesn't recognize the key stroke, then it should bypassed to the plugin.
2. Any modifier (Ctrl/Cmd/Shit/etc) should go to both, to the host window and the child plugin window
3. (Optional) An option that forces that every key stroke is addressed to the child plugin window when the host plugin window is focused.

I think it would be the perfect solution. There is other plugins that need from modifiers to fine tweak a knob or reset them, so I think MuLab would improve the compatibility with third party plugins when you implement this

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:51 pm

About modifiers: The plugin can always ask the OS for the actual state of the modifier keys. I think that's the most simple solution, with the extra benefit that your plugin is not dependent on whether the host adds that extra complexity of forwarding key messages. Agreed?

squaredheads · Post by **squaredheads** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:01 pm

magicmusic wrote:I try copy a note in phrase editor with MUX as instrument. The CTRL key is ignore, alt too and copy not work. only note is move. The help problem: I have enable tooltips. when i enable inline help, it work same wrong as tooltips. I notice that the highlight of the button text work, when mouse is over a button. but inline or tooltips are not show, after 1. press in a window.

This is something I have to take a look in Nora. I don't know why is this happening inside MUX. Notice that once you unfold any menu, the inline help and the tooltip work as they would work in any other host. Maybe it's related to the floating window.

squaredheads · Post by **squaredheads** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:14 pm

mutools wrote:About modifiers: The plugin can always ask the OS for the actual state of the modifier keys. I think that's the most simple solution, with the extra benefit that your plugin is not dependent on whether the host adds that extra complexity of forwarding key messages. Agreed?

Yes, Nora always ask to the SO for the modifiers. The problem is that I cannot detect when there was a modifier change (or I think there isn't any function for that, except creating a timer that constantly check for it).

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:29 pm

the strange thing with MUX is, when use mulab can see. If it is add with the menu point "add Modules->others->mux modular" then it work. if MUX is add as a VST instrument(when install the VST MUX version) with Menu "VST->instrument-> MUX (VST Synth)" then it work not. It work not too, when use MUX (VST Synth) in any other DAW. I test now in mulab the VST rack chainer Demo. when i add chainer in mulab and nora in chainer it work ok

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:51 pm

Reminds me of earlier reports about similar things, popup menus in plugins that suddenly goes away. It's something Juce related iirc. Squaredheads are you indeed using Juce? If yes then can you please insert MUX Modular in some host and then Nora in MUX Modular and try to repeat what Magicmusic is reporting, then set a breakpoint at some relevant point in your/Juce code to lookup the very reason why such popup is immediately closed. I would do that test myself if the relevant code was on my side but the closing popup is not in the MuLab/MUX code imho, but in the plugin/Juce code. Hope we can narrow this down and solve.

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:38 pm

I search in the nora demo dll file for the words juce. it is find often. also find names as "juce message thread" "juce timer" "juce file browser"

But a popup is not close, the ctrl key is not recognize and the tooltips are not update. seem there are some message miss to send. when press and hold mouse button over a note move it and press CTRL the old note should appear too, because it is copy mode. when ctrl is then release, old note should disapear. But with MUX as instrument CTRL do nothing. so copy of note is not possible, only move

squaredheads · Post by **squaredheads** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:09 pm

mutools wrote:If yes then can you please insert MUX Modular in some host and then Nora in MUX Modular and try to repeat what Magicmusic is reporting, then set a breakpoint at some relevant point in your/Juce code to lookup the very reason why such popup is immediately closed. I would do that test myself if the relevant code was on my side but the closing popup is not in the MuLab/MUX code imho, but in the plugin/Juce code. Hope we can narrow this down and solve.

Yes we're using several classes from Juce, I'll take a look to it in order to solve the inline help /tootips problem.

magicmusic wrote:But a popup is not close, the ctrl key is not recognize and the tooltips are not update. seem there are some message miss to send. when press and hold mouse button over a note move it and press CTRL the old note should appear too, because it is copy mode. when ctrl is then release, old note should disapear. But with MUX as instrument CTRL do nothing. so copy of note is not possible, only move

If you follow the conversation, you will see that there could be a problem in Nora related to the inline help. About the Ctrl-key: if it does not reach Nora I only can apply a 'brute force'-likely method to rescue modifiers from the SO, or they could do it reach Nora.

magicmusic · Post by **magicmusic** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:35 am

Now with MUX VST 6.5.31 and i guess newer MUX , Nora work ok now. thanks for fixing. I think this is an important fix and also can help other plugins, that have problems with keys or bubble help. Also in MUX 6.5.31 is now possible have better GUI with VST racks, slider etc.

MuTools

KVR Audio

MUX Modular Problem with CTRL Key press and message sent for inline help, see on Nora arp