there is a beta.Zexila wrote:Also Image Line that you took as business model example have all the confirmations in the world and tons of request's to do FL Mac native and yet it's not here despite of everything, despite people running Windows on Mac's because of it, despite tons of them making all more than valid reasons why that is excellent idea, despite my dog knowing it, still nothing, if somebody can and have interest&numbers working for them, it's IL with FL, sooo.....
mux for mac please?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
ACKCHYUALLY
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
After many years of begging and making all this valid points, so when it goes out, than it's here, it can stay in beta for few years, it's not the first case and last.solipsvs wrote:there is a beta.Zexila wrote:Also Image Line that you took as business model example have all the confirmations in the world and tons of request's to do FL Mac native and yet it's not here despite of everything, despite people running Windows on Mac's because of it, despite tons of them making all more than valid reasons why that is excellent idea, despite my dog knowing it, still nothing, if somebody can and have interest&numbers working for them, it's IL with FL, sooo.....
Point is, the company that have resources and so much valid case isn't delivering, not one man operation for barely known product.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? 
ShawnG
ShawnG-
- KVRist
- 179 posts since 26 Feb, 2007
Just to make things clear for the half-informed.
Below, that's from Image-Line themselves and now please keep in mind that the beta is from 2013
and basically an non-working alpha...
best,
tL.
___
Image-Line Support Board:
A while back we started testing a FL Studio Mac OS X BETA (Crossover Wrapped) version, with direct installation on Mac OS X. This was promising, but it was still a Windows program, wrapped by CrossOver, running on OS X. The interest in the wrapped beta, and the problems we faced supporting 3rd party VST plugins in it, lead the team to start work on porting our Windows-only VST plugins - Edison, Gross Beat, Harmless, Harmor, Maximus, Ogun, Slicex, Sytrus, Vocodex to OS X native VST format. You can get these plugins here.
The OS X VST plugin testing, was in fact, the stealthy beginnings of FL Studio native OS X compatibility development. These VST plugins use the exact same code-base as FL Studio itself, and if we could get these working to spec on OS X, then FL Studio would likely follow soon after.
Well, the plugin testing is progressing nicely, and so the team has turned their attention to FL Studio 12 itself. It's a long and slow process and we can't make any promises yet, since we may come across unexpected and or unsolvable technical problems. But work is indeed under way. Below are some of the issues we face porting FL Studio to native Mac OS X and explains why this is taking 'so long':
Delphi:
FL Studio is written in Delphi with in-line assembly for much of the DSP (yes hard-core assembly, not for babies). This is one reason why FL Studio and its graphics are so fluid.
Delphi only recently got the ability to compile to OS X. So while this is great, it's a 1st-generation OS X compiler, it's cranky and sometimes causes problems of its own. But, before this came along, we needed to port well over 2 million lines of code to another language. We never thought that was a good idea, and it's why we never did it before. But, things have changed, so let's call this progress.
Windows API:
FL Studio is tightly bound to the Windows API that takes care of moving, minimizing, maximizing windows, detecting cursor position, drag & drop, opening windows dialogs, clipboard functions, decoding MP3s, ... so a port requires all operating system dependent calls to be isolated & replaced by bi-platform dependent functions. That's a major part of what the team are doing now.
FYI, just getting all this system dependent code from Deckadance (which was created more or less with porting in mind) and replacing it with bi-platform versions took almost 6 months. FL Studio is many times the size of Deckadance, so please be patient.
Will this impact on the development of FL Studio for Windows?
No, the team working on the conversion to OS X is separate from the Windows development team. They talk, but don't share any bodies that we know of, so it's business as usual on the Microsoft side of things. Bill Gates sends his regards BTW.
Why didn't you do this before?
As noted above, before Delphi could compile to OS X, the job would have meant a re-write of over 2 million lines of code into another language (like C#). If we were going to do that, we would probably start over and write a completely new DAW application and the result would not be FL Studio. Since we were, and still are, doing very well with a Windows only version (we get over 30,000 downloads of the demo per day) we decided to wait and see if technology solutions came along. And they did, first Macs changed to Intel based (Win PC) hardware, then OS X was launched (a Unix based system) and finally Delphi came to the party with an OS X compiler, so it seems the long wait has paid off.
The FL studio Support Team
Below, that's from Image-Line themselves and now please keep in mind that the beta is from 2013
and basically an non-working alpha...
best,
tL.
___
Image-Line Support Board:
A while back we started testing a FL Studio Mac OS X BETA (Crossover Wrapped) version, with direct installation on Mac OS X. This was promising, but it was still a Windows program, wrapped by CrossOver, running on OS X. The interest in the wrapped beta, and the problems we faced supporting 3rd party VST plugins in it, lead the team to start work on porting our Windows-only VST plugins - Edison, Gross Beat, Harmless, Harmor, Maximus, Ogun, Slicex, Sytrus, Vocodex to OS X native VST format. You can get these plugins here.
The OS X VST plugin testing, was in fact, the stealthy beginnings of FL Studio native OS X compatibility development. These VST plugins use the exact same code-base as FL Studio itself, and if we could get these working to spec on OS X, then FL Studio would likely follow soon after.
Well, the plugin testing is progressing nicely, and so the team has turned their attention to FL Studio 12 itself. It's a long and slow process and we can't make any promises yet, since we may come across unexpected and or unsolvable technical problems. But work is indeed under way. Below are some of the issues we face porting FL Studio to native Mac OS X and explains why this is taking 'so long':
Delphi:
FL Studio is written in Delphi with in-line assembly for much of the DSP (yes hard-core assembly, not for babies). This is one reason why FL Studio and its graphics are so fluid.
Delphi only recently got the ability to compile to OS X. So while this is great, it's a 1st-generation OS X compiler, it's cranky and sometimes causes problems of its own. But, before this came along, we needed to port well over 2 million lines of code to another language. We never thought that was a good idea, and it's why we never did it before. But, things have changed, so let's call this progress.
Windows API:
FL Studio is tightly bound to the Windows API that takes care of moving, minimizing, maximizing windows, detecting cursor position, drag & drop, opening windows dialogs, clipboard functions, decoding MP3s, ... so a port requires all operating system dependent calls to be isolated & replaced by bi-platform dependent functions. That's a major part of what the team are doing now.
FYI, just getting all this system dependent code from Deckadance (which was created more or less with porting in mind) and replacing it with bi-platform versions took almost 6 months. FL Studio is many times the size of Deckadance, so please be patient.
Will this impact on the development of FL Studio for Windows?
No, the team working on the conversion to OS X is separate from the Windows development team. They talk, but don't share any bodies that we know of, so it's business as usual on the Microsoft side of things. Bill Gates sends his regards BTW.
Why didn't you do this before?
As noted above, before Delphi could compile to OS X, the job would have meant a re-write of over 2 million lines of code into another language (like C#). If we were going to do that, we would probably start over and write a completely new DAW application and the result would not be FL Studio. Since we were, and still are, doing very well with a Windows only version (we get over 30,000 downloads of the demo per day) we decided to wait and see if technology solutions came along. And they did, first Macs changed to Intel based (Win PC) hardware, then OS X was launched (a Unix based system) and finally Delphi came to the party with an OS X compiler, so it seems the long wait has paid off.
The FL studio Support Team
Professional.
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- KVRist
- 288 posts since 29 May, 2012
It just so happens that "Crocket's Theme" is owned by Universal Music Group, who are ACTIVELY seeking to shut down all YouTube videos which use their copyrighted intellectual property. Lawsuits brought by 6.5 billion dollar companies can take years before they settle - and as I've stated, AT THEIR DISCRETION, they can choose to ignore "little sally's attempt to show her love for a song by posting an amateur video" (and perhaps you fit in that group, your rants certainly sound adolescent).solipsvs wrote:if anyone thinks a youtube vid of a cover of any song would get shut down, youre crazy. it would not. please and then report back. there is nothing morally wrong with making a cover of a song.
And I'm not speaking MORALLY, I'm speaking LEGALLY.
Several people on KVR have used a Kickstarter campaign with some degree of success, using incentives of their finished product. I have funded more than 20 Kickstarter campaigns, I would never even consider a Go Fund Me, which is more akin to public begging for a percentage of the take. But they certainly do work for bigots who cry foul about discrimination against not being able to discriminate.
The only products Fruity Loops have successfully ported to Mac were done using the Juce Framework (WINE-wrapping is NOT a port, nor is it functional) - and their claims Delphi not being "Mac Compatible" are spurious, as Lazarus ported Object Pascal to OS X nearly 8 years ago - as freeware. So I'm far less patient with them than I am with MuTools regarding a Mux for Mac.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
indeed, so dont do it then! im not comparing, im saying EMULATE their successful ideas.
Last edited by solipsvs on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ACKCHYUALLY
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- KVRAF
- 13865 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Pls lets keep on focusing on the topic itself, not on personal aspects. I've removed last two posts as there were off topic. I'll keep on filtering/removing things until all is chill again. Try to find eachother. Pls be constructive, be creative.
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- KVRAF
- 13865 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
I will not allow any personal attacks/reproaches (or whatever), only purely on topic posts.
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- KVRAF
- 13865 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Yes trying to do so, within the available time+money resources.solipsvs wrote:EMULATE successful ideas.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
please dont blame me if youre out of touch. this is one thing that marketing requires of its practitioners... is it not true? how adolescent did that sound?hueynym wrote:your rants certainly sound adolescent
ACKCHYUALLY
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
to everyone:
do you say its impossible? that its never been done before? that the odds are against it? that limitations get in the way? its too much work? it cant be competitive?
i got one thing to say to most of that: theres a first time for everything.
do you say its impossible? that its never been done before? that the odds are against it? that limitations get in the way? its too much work? it cant be competitive?
i got one thing to say to most of that: theres a first time for everything.
ACKCHYUALLY
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- KVRAF
- 13865 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Had to delete another post that only contained an off topic, insulting phrase. The poster knows who and what. Last time i filtered/deleted something in this topic, next time i'll simply close it. Last call for being constructive.