MUX Owner With MULab Questions

[Taron]

Ah, this is exciting! I'm totally certain you won't regret it!
I have to say, as with any software, there is a roller coaster progression of experiences when you get into it. When things still seem strange and one has to align to a mildly different mindset. There's a curious thing with MuLab. On the surface it's really just brilliantly easy and as you recognize its flexibility, you quickly begin to appreciate it.
Then it lures you deeper down. On this journey I found moments that were bewildering and oddly draining as I had to learn its logic, seemingly familiar, but just slightly off-center. It took some muscle to pierce through, but once I had arrived... sheeesh, wowsa! There you realize what power it hands to you and you recognize that there's really no ceiling to the quality and complexity of sound you can coax out of it and you, too, will recognize that it's only meters away from breaking totally new ground in many directions.

When Jo is through with the next set of major leaps, MuLab will be unstoppable!
Currently, of course, it's still up for some spankings, hihihi... ...but those hands will have to aim well!

[wagtunes]

Well, as sad as this is for me to say, I'm going to have to pass on MuLab.

None of my 32 bit VSTs load. None of them. I get the same message for each one. Invalid VST Plugin. With bridging, all of these load in Cubase. Granted, some aren't the most stable and occasionally crash, but at least they load and I can use them.

Until this problem is fixed, I'm going to have to pass on MuLab for now and continue with Cubase.

[Taron]

Relax, wag! You're on the 64bit version of mulab, which will only load 64bit vsts!
There are three options to deal with that:
- THE BEST is to get the 64bit version of your VSTs!
- The second best is to use Jbridge to patch your 32bit vsts into 64bit, but some of them may not like it.
- the last is to use the 32bit version of MuLab, which you can also just download and run and then all of them will work as usual.

[wagtunes]

Relax, wag! You're on the 64bit version of mulab, which will only load 64bit vsts!
There are three options to deal with that:
- THE BEST is to get the 64bit version of your VSTs!
- The second best is to use Jbridge to patch your 32bit vsts into 64bit, but some of them may not like it.
- the last is to use the 32bit version of MuLab, which you can also just download and run and then all of them will work as usual.

Unfortunately, there is no 64 bit versions of these plugs otherwise I would have gotten them. Many of them are ancient but still quite useful such as HG Fortune's stuff. I'd be lost without X-Wof.

The 32 bit version isn't an option because some of my plugs (the heavy duty orchestral stuff) need the extra memory only 64 bit will give me.

So I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I can try J-Bridge but some of these ran perfectly fine in Cubase even without it, like the recent Pyrite. I can't even get Sonigen Modular to load which has never given me a problem and I really don't want to mess with bridging it.

There is simply no acceptable option for me. I either do without the 32 bit plugs or I do without the extra memory I need for my heavy duty stuff (EWQL, etc.)

In short, this just plain sucks.

[MuTools]

Unfortunately, there is no 64 bit versions of these plugs otherwise I would have gotten them. Many of them are ancient but still quite useful such as HG Fortune's stuff. I'd be lost without X-Wof.
The 32 bit version isn't an option because some of my plugs (the heavy duty orchestral stuff) need the extra memory only 64 bit will give me.

I'm quite sure that if you plugin a 32 bit plugin in cubase or whatever host using a bridge (whatever bridge) that VST can only address 32 bit space. It's not that if you bridge a 32 bit VST into a 64 bit host that the 32 bit VST can handle 64 bit amounts of ram. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[Taron]

Give Jbridge a chance first! There's a new version out for just a few weeks, I think. Thus far I had no troubles, but I mostly really use 64bit plugs.
Every transition requires some adaptation, not just in terms of toolset, but also in terms of your approach to things. I'm convinced you will find brilliant solutions in MuLab the moment you recognize how best to deal with it.
Just go at it gradually and don't try to press it right into your Cubase mold. It is, after all, a different software.

I, too, think it would be cool, if it was possible for a host to automatically recognize how to deal with 32bit and 64bit plugins without the user having to care about it. I don't know how, of course, but it seems conceivable. I do, though, believe it should come with an optional warning requester (You are loading a 32bit plugin...yadda, yadda consequences).

At the end, though, nobody forces anything on you, naturally. I can only tell again, I've worked with most Hosts and ended up thrilled with MuLab mostly for its directness and lack of complication.

[MuTools]

I do, though, believe it should come with an optional warning requester (You are loading a 32bit plugin...yadda, yadda consequences).

As i saw the 32-64 bit confusion too often, that's already in the next version

[wagtunes]

Unfortunately, there is no 64 bit versions of these plugs otherwise I would have gotten them. Many of them are ancient but still quite useful such as HG Fortune's stuff. I'd be lost without X-Wof.
The 32 bit version isn't an option because some of my plugs (the heavy duty orchestral stuff) need the extra memory only 64 bit will give me.

I'm quite sure that if you plugin a 32 bit plugin in cubase or whatever host using a bridge (whatever bridge) that VST can only address 32 bit space. It's not that if you bridge a 32 bit VST into a 64 bit host that the 32 bit VST can handle 64 bit amounts of ram. Correct me if i'm wrong.

That isn't what I'm concerned about. I understand 32 bit VSTs can only access 32 bit memory even bridged.

I'm talking about my 64 bit PlayVST dll which used my EWQL orchestral libraries. The PlayVST is 64 bit and the libraries need all 64 bit worth of memory because of the size of the libraries and how much memory they take to load. Projects using these libraries are massive. They cannot possibly load all those samples in a 32 bit environment.

So if I go the 32 bit version of MuLab, I'll have to give up all my orchestral work, which isn't an option. If I go 64 bit MuLab, I'll have to give up my old plugs. That's an option but not one I really like, especially with some of these that are still very much used.

Plus, I have newer plugs that I actually paid for (all old 32 bit plugs were free downloads) that won't work either such as OP-X Pro II and GForce ImpOSCar 2 that I paid hundreds of dollars for. And the newer 32 bit plugs (not made with Synthedit but with C++ code) work perfectly in Cubase without bridging. JBridge, on the other hand, has proven to be not so reliable as I had hoped it would be.

Anyway, I'm going to try an experiment. I don't want to mess with the paths in my Cubase DAW so I'm going to bridge all these plugs that won't load and store the bridged versions in my MuLab folder where they won't get in the way of anything else. I'll test them all thoroughly to see if they work. If they do, and everything else works out as far as my minimum requirements for my projects (still going through the manual) then I'll probably go with MuLab because I can't tell you how frustrating Cubase is with all the crashes and lockups. So far, not a blip off the radar with MuLab. This thing is rock solid.

But as bad as Cubase is, it loads everything.

Unfortunately, that's a huge deal breaker.

[Shabdahbriah]

Relax, wag! You're on the 64bit version of mulab, which will only load 64bit vsts!
There are three options to deal with that:
- THE BEST is to get the 64bit version of your VSTs!
- The second best is to use Jbridge to patch your 32bit vsts into 64bit, but some of them may not like it.
- the last is to use the 32bit version of MuLab, which you can also just download and run and then all of them will work as usual.

What he said. ^^^

Admittedly, I have been keeping my eye on MuLab since its inception, and I'm on the fence with getting it also, but mainly for TWO reasons, first and foremost, because it has a "proprietary imbedded sample format", and second, for the aesthetic continuity with MUX, which aside from being awesome in itself, it was my understanding that it SAVES and LOADs *that* format, which makes it a potential outlet, for both free and commercial 'presets' with "imbedded sample/waveform content", as well as instruments, effects, 'sounds', and 'sample libs', not only for me, but the gazillion other people looking for a reasonably priced, and flexible "hosts" instrument alternative to Kontakt, Mach-5 et al, that also happens to load/create single-cycle waveforms, and wavetables {I have made 10's of thousands of them} AND is modular, AND loads Vsts... dream come true.

{aside} I have always liked MuLabs "look", and many of its unique, clever, and the *modular* features which are developing/maturing, nicely. I really don't "need" another 'DAW' {I use five currently} as I use them mainly for routing multiple samples through effects, generating more samples, and their specific attributes {even if only ONE 'important' one exists}.

With the overwhelming resurgence of interest in Modular Synths and Effects, "field recording", sound for picture, and game audio, not to mention personalizing "your sound" BY sampling-it-yourself (in general), an affordable/viable "Instrument" which addresses areas of that market largely underdeveloped {like *recording*, AND a biggie ~ 'scripting/generating' SFZ's, for non-coders, for example} I would really like to see The MUX promoted {and I among others will do so} as a viable "Modular Sampler Instrument" for sample developers, and tweakers.

It is a market worth pursuing fervently, IMHO. [2c]

[MuTools]

@wagtunes: Just thinking loud: You could try bridging the 64 bit orchestral into 32 bit MuLab. I think that will give 64 bit space to the 64 bit plugin. And all your 32 bit VSTs won't need bridging. But you'll need bridging anyway. What's wrong with jBridge?

[Taron]

I so understand your rage right now, but it's just a hump you hopefully choose to pass over and when you look back, you'll realize that there wasn't as much trouble as you thought.
Thus far not a single 64bit plugin I have had any troubles loading into 64bit Mulab.

The added bonus I had was that I came from mostly using Reason for some 10 years, which meant that I was forced to rethink my entire approach to arrangement, routing and all that jazz. I took a chance, because the things that worked right away are so great, that I knew it was worth the transitional pains.
For mixing now, I really dig the iZotope set as well as fun things like TheGlue. Needless to mention the fun Voxengo stuff. I still have troubles with MuLab's mastering solutions for some totally odd reason, but I expect that I one day either suddenly understand how best to use them or that certain things become a little more conventional, such as the compressor/limiter stuff. I really cannot explain, why they won't sit right with me thus far?! ...but thankfully vsts for those things exist in the hundreds and easy to get.

For the heavy instrument stuff I'm almost exclusively on Kontakt 5, which has all the biggest libraries and since Kontakt has a perfect home within MuLab, I really have no troubles at all with that. I also have/had the EastWest Gold Edition, but actually ended up not liking it at all, because they're very crude and wet. Somewhere between Spitfire, 8dio and VSL you'll find the best of the best as far as I'm concerned. They are all quite easy to put in a mix and have beautiful quality and playability.

Most of all, though, go slow and take some deep breaths every now and then. It's easy to fly off the handle if things don't seem to work right away. I most certainly know your pain and there will always be new surprises that may drive you nuts for a moment, but once you find your groove, you'll also find the true power behind what you're using. Never forget, though, it's about the music!

[wagtunes]

Well, I gave it a fair chance. I bridged OP-X Pro II, a VST I paid good money for. I loaded the bridged version. It loaded fine. I init a patch and worked on it. I closed the GUI. I them tried to reopen the GUI and it blew up MuLab. It does this every time. I have no problem duplicating this. I can even make a Camtasia video if you like.

Bridging is not an option and losing 64 bit on my memory intensive projects isn't an option either.

As much as I dislike Cubase with its crashes and lockups, it is still my only option at this point in time.

[MuTools]

it has a "proprietary imbedded sample format"

Indeed MUX presets can embed the samples theu use, but that's just an option, not a must. (and chance is real that it's going to be abandonned, thus only relying on linked sample files)

and second, for the aesthetic continuity with MUX, which aside from being awesome in itself, it was my understanding that it SAVES and LOADs *that* format, which makes it a potential outlet, for both free and commercial 'presets' with "imbedded sample/waveform content", as well as instruments, effects, 'sounds', and 'sample libs', not only for me, but the gazillion other people looking for a reasonably priced, and flexible "hosts" instrument alternative to Kontakt, Mach-5 et al, that also happens to load/create single-cycle waveforms, and wavetables {I have made 10's of thousands of them} AND is modular, AND loads Vsts... dream come true.

I'm not sure if i understand your point. Pls elaborate.

I would really like to see The MUX promoted {and I among others will do so} as a viable "Modular Sampler Instrument" for sample developers, and tweakers.

What's stopping you to use it that way?

Sorry if i'm missing something.

[wagtunes]

Okay, sometimes your brain gets stuck in one gear and you can't think because you're spinning your wheels.

I've been looking at this as an either/or situation (Cubase or MuLab) but why does it have to be either/or?

I can download the 32 bit version of MuLab, try that out, and if it loads all the 32 bit plugs with no problem, use MuLab for my less intensive work and use Cubase for my orchestral stuff.

It gives me 2 options instead of one and in the process maybe I end up with fewer problems all around as my orchestral work rarely blows up on me. It's always the synth VSTs that give me problems in Cubase.

I'll download the 32 bit version and try it out and then take it from there.

[Taron]

Doesn't your EastWest come as Kontakt instruments as well?