Muting a track does not mute its MIDI output

[slackhead]

I totally agree with the original author. Here's why.

For me Solo and Mute are functions to track single channels. Which means, you have your song playing and want to tweak something on one channel and maybe don't want to be distracted by the others. Then you use solo and/or mute to hear what you want for that moment.
If you want a channel to be silent all the time, then delete it or in case the channel is sth like a sidechain turn down the fader OR change the output to "nothing". That works fine in Bitwig and audio is not the problem.

But - to come back to the problem - when using MultiOut Vsts you have to go somewhere else (to the mixer, or devicechain of the vst) to temporarily solo or mute individual outputs, instead of just killing what is sending to them and is available on the front plate of the DAW (the solo/mute button on the midi channel). For me that sounds like a work around and not a work flow.

If you are using mute and solo buttons for "more" than temporarily monitoring of individual tracks, than you haven't understood the concept of them. You don't need to mute a sidechain audio signal, but if you want to it's possible. Otherwise turn the fader down. But why shouldn't I have the possibility to "mute" midi notes if I want to, so I can temporarily listen to the other channels of the multi vst. There's no reason for it.

To the sidechain-input on solo-ing track argument - which is the only one brought up yet - If you have the sidechain Input Pre-Fader everything would work as supposed to, also with "our" way of solo/mute. And I guess also that this is the reason why you have the choice to select pre or post fader.

Thank you donkong - your thoughts are the same as mine, just better explained :0

[slackhead]

This is not quite the same issue. A

Essentially it is, as I would like to be able to mute / solo the individual MIDI tracks not just the returns.

This is not really any different to the way that the drum machine works at present. You can not use the inspector to mute/sole individual pads. This has to be done in the device chain or in the mix view instead. Extending the hardware device to show additional channels in the device chain would just make it fall in line with other current multi channel devices.

I need to spend I little more time getting my head around the Bitwig drum machine. I haven't yet because I'm very happy using Geist for my drum needs, but maybe the two could work well in tandem.

Allowing the solo buttons to break would be silly, as you just move a problem from one area to another. Frustration would still remain one way or the other.

I'm afraid I still don't really understand the problem you're getting at, particularly if each track was able to have its behaviour switched (to allowing MIDI muting or not).

[koshal]

Just purchased a license and I also somehow missed this during the demo as well. I guess I just assumed it worked like that and was busy checking out the package (which looks fantastic btw). When I started producing my first track though it became glaringly obvious. Mute is not so bad (at least I can Toggle Track Activated), but solo is where the real issue is. People have different workflows and for some this is a killer. I don't always need/want to bring back all the audio as separate channels while I'm creating. I usually do it later once the basic sketch/outline is done or I need certain FX + processing from my host that's not available in my VSTi. Sometimes I don't do it at all.

This forces met to always route everything up front. And even then it's very poor experience to mute/solo. Assuming I've trudged through the routing inside my VSTi, having to go off somewhere else like the mixer is a total buzzkill. I do it many, many times during the initial arranging/composing. I need it immediately accessible to stay in the flow.

This basically makes multi-out VSTs unusable for me for being creative. One workaround is to just load up multiple instances of the same plugin on different tracks so I can solo and mute easy like in other sequencers. That works okay for instruments like Omnisphere and Kontakt but for my drum kits that I have stored in Maschine or Battery not so much. When I work with drums I definitely want separate midi tracks (kick, snare, hats etc) all triggering the same instrument/kit (multiple instances doesn't cut it here).

I'd be totally okay if there was even keyboard shortcut to do this. I don't necessarily need the S and M buttons on the sequencer to do it. But there has to be a simple way to do this that doesn't interfere with workflow.

I know for some this isn't an issue, but I think this thread proves for a lot of people it is. I'm only an occasional browser at KVR, and felt the need to create an account just to make the post. I've already submitted feedback/feature request to the official email about this topic.

Like I said everything else looks amazing with this software. The workflow and user experience of the software (outside of this issue) is just phenomenal. But I purchased my license a few days ago and I'm really regretting I didn't spend more time with the demo. This issue makes Bitwig almost unusable for me. I'm hoping I can find a workaround or maybe at some point this issue will be fixed. I guess only time will tell. Will hang onto my license for a bit, but at some point will probably have to sell it off. It's unfortunate because I really dig everything I see and would love to do all my production in Bitwig, but can't without this in place.

[powermat]

Koshal, I think the 1.2 beta may help... if they'd only release the thing, I'd be more certain, but with group tracks, your routing woes may be a ton less headache inducing (organizationally and one Solo button for the whole group).

[koshal]

Cool thanks. Yeah as much as this issue kills my workflow/productivity, I also realize the software is very new and will change/improve a lot over time. If enough people raise this as an issue I'm hoping at some point they'll do something about it. As you mentioned maybe 1.2 helps out a bit on this front.

FYI The reason I bought Bitwig is because I'm looking for session view / clip launcher type DAW to supplement work in Studio One. Ableton doesn't have this issue, and even though I'm able to lay down ideas in it quickly in it, everything else about it to me is just ugh. Bitwig looks amazing, so before I jump ship I'll wait for that upcoming release and take another stab at finding workarounds in the meantime.

[powermat]

Yes, group tracks may sort of fix this issue. Sort of like soloing a drum pad in the drum machine doesn't mute all non drum machine instruments. Instead of a track for an instrument, I'll use a group track (with track routings within). If I solo that group, all other groups should chill on mute, even if they have subtracks that have been solo'd... if group track 1 isn't solo'd (but has a solo'd track within its group), then it would be muted, right? At least I hope that is how they work. :-\ I guess we'll find out soonventually.

[takaii]

To solo anything using container you need to solo track and the part in container i like that actually. Because i like doing everything else with track because its easy to mix in contex with everything else. And id i want to solo a part i just solo the whole track and the part inside the container i want to solo . Nice for sound design or doing things in contex

[powermat]

Containers with multiple outs are like mini mixers, so their solos should be separate, no?

[owensands]

WOW do I hate this! I mute and solo MIDI tracks in Sonar all day long, and it works as expected. A DAW is an abstraction of a recording studio. When I'm mixing I care not a whit whether my drum tracks contain MIDI or audio data. I want to treat them the same and I expect the DAW to abstract away the differences whenever possible.

This is so basic. It's muting and soloing tracks ffs. Things should be moving in the other direction, e.g mapping the volume slider to CC7 (as suggested), not making the differences between MIDI and audio tracks MORE evident.

EXACTLY. What happens on a hybrid track? MUTE SHOULD MUTE EVERYTHING. There is really no two ways about it and STILL no one has given a good reason for it to NOT work like this. Looks as though the majority of the people in this thread agree as well.

[Tearing Riots]

WOW do I hate this! I mute and solo MIDI tracks in Sonar all day long, and it works as expected. A DAW is an abstraction of a recording studio. When I'm mixing I care not a whit whether my drum tracks contain MIDI or audio data. I want to treat them the same and I expect the DAW to abstract away the differences whenever possible.

This is so basic. It's muting and soloing tracks ffs. Things should be moving in the other direction, e.g mapping the volume slider to CC7 (as suggested), not making the differences between MIDI and audio tracks MORE evident.

EXACTLY. What happens on a hybrid track? MUTE SHOULD MUTE EVERYTHING. There is really no two ways about it and STILL no one has given a good reason for it to NOT work like this. Looks as though the majority of the people in this thread agree as well.

I don´t agree but didn´t want to discuss it either as you are getting so emotional about this.
Just one thing: in a recording studio you can always stop playing OR mute the audio. That´s the way i know it from FL, Cubase and Logic. To me it makes sense and any drawbacks this method has over the hybrid one are easily worked around.

[owensands]

WOW do I hate this! I mute and solo MIDI tracks in Sonar all day long, and it works as expected. A DAW is an abstraction of a recording studio. When I'm mixing I care not a whit whether my drum tracks contain MIDI or audio data. I want to treat them the same and I expect the DAW to abstract away the differences whenever possible.

This is so basic. It's muting and soloing tracks ffs. Things should be moving in the other direction, e.g mapping the volume slider to CC7 (as suggested), not making the differences between MIDI and audio tracks MORE evident.

EXACTLY. What happens on a hybrid track? MUTE SHOULD MUTE EVERYTHING. There is really no two ways about it and STILL no one has given a good reason for it to NOT work like this. Looks as though the majority of the people in this thread agree as well.

I don´t agree but didn´t want to discuss it either as you are getting so emotional about this.
Just one thing: in a recording studio you can always stop playing OR mute the audio. That´s the way i know it from FL, Cubase and Logic. To me it makes sense and any drawbacks this method has over the hybrid one are easily worked around.

Again we like to say we don't agree but offer no reasoning besides there being workarounds. Why should we have to mute/stop multiple objects in a track to stop from hearing anything. It should be one operation to do it all. Mute.

[codec17]

WOW do I hate this! I mute and solo MIDI tracks in Sonar all day long, and it works as expected. A DAW is an abstraction of a recording studio. When I'm mixing I care not a whit whether my drum tracks contain MIDI or audio data. I want to treat them the same and I expect the DAW to abstract away the differences whenever possible.

This is so basic. It's muting and soloing tracks ffs. Things should be moving in the other direction, e.g mapping the volume slider to CC7 (as suggested), not making the differences between MIDI and audio tracks MORE evident.

EXACTLY. What happens on a hybrid track? MUTE SHOULD MUTE EVERYTHING. There is really no two ways about it and STILL no one has given a good reason for it to NOT work like this. Looks as though the majority of the people in this thread agree as well.

Well said imo.

[Tearing Riots]

Again we like to say we don't agree but offer no reasoning besides there being workarounds. Why should we have to mute/stop multiple objects in a track to stop from hearing anything. It should be one operation to do it all. Mute.

Because it makes sense, the notes can go to different locations, muting audio should not stop midi playback.

And if i mute all my tracks i don´t hear anything.

[owensands]

Again we like to say we don't agree but offer no reasoning besides there being workarounds. Why should we have to mute/stop multiple objects in a track to stop from hearing anything. It should be one operation to do it all. Mute.

Because it makes sense, the notes can go to different locations, muting audio should not stop midi playback.

And if i mute all my tracks i don´t hear anything.

It doesn't for me when i'm using hardware that all returns on one stereo return channel. There should at the very least be an option of how we want it to behave.

[TeePee]

Can someone please show me where the Solo button is on my summing mixer?

It's a Thermionic Culture Little Bustard.

Just can't seem to find the Solo button.The band are getting fed up waiting for me to find it.