Thanks for all your fantastic hard graft jo. Amazing how much mulab has changed since m5!
MuLab 6.5.29 released
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- KVRAF
- 3162 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
Smaller = better
Thanks for all your fantastic hard graft jo. Amazing how much mulab has changed since m5!
Thanks for all your fantastic hard graft jo. Amazing how much mulab has changed since m5!
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- KVRAF
- 5386 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
IMHO, a key benefit of this truly outstanding new feature (Thx also to Taron) is a quicker workflow, thus little details make a difference:
Not all VST parameters show in the generic editor or the front panel, so it is important to quickly see if a parameter is focused-- by seeing the name change (vst and front panel names not always the same), and that tweaking the vst knob also causes the panel knob to move, which then displays the relative value. Relative, because vst and generic/front panel units are not always the same, eg -/+15dB vs 0-100% -- which affects envelope/ automation design (see below).
Being able to quickly glance up and see the relative front panel values rather than needing to mouse up and hover over is necessary to do automation. When I drag-drop a parameter on an auto track and the vst units are in dB but the front panel is %, I need to quickly glance back and forth to compare the automation %, front panel % and vst knob dB and get it right. Perhaps you can also include a 'units window' to the right of the 'name window' ?
OTOH being able to see both knobs move is informative and thus reassuring.mutools wrote:it may be disturbing
Not all VST parameters show in the generic editor or the front panel, so it is important to quickly see if a parameter is focused-- by seeing the name change (vst and front panel names not always the same), and that tweaking the vst knob also causes the panel knob to move, which then displays the relative value. Relative, because vst and generic/front panel units are not always the same, eg -/+15dB vs 0-100% -- which affects envelope/ automation design (see below).Yes, but not at the expense of quickly visible information.sl23 wrote:Smaller = better
Being able to quickly glance up and see the relative front panel values rather than needing to mouse up and hover over is necessary to do automation. When I drag-drop a parameter on an auto track and the vst units are in dB but the front panel is %, I need to quickly glance back and forth to compare the automation %, front panel % and vst knob dB and get it right. Perhaps you can also include a 'units window' to the right of the 'name window' ?F E E D
Y O U R
F L O W
Y O U R
F L O W
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 13867 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Michael L wrote:OTOH being able to see both knobs move is informative and thus reassuring.mutools wrote:it may be disturbing
So you want to keep the larger version, right? Ok, i'm adding a preference for this: Off - Small - Large. In Off mode you can still go via the context menu for such functionalities, as was before, but with an extra extension as you'll see in the next M6.5.26.Michael L wrote:Yes, but not at the expense of quickly visible information. Being able to quickly glance up and see the relative front panel values rather than needing to mouse up and hover over is necessary to do automation.sl23 wrote:Smaller = better
Unfortunately that's not possible because the VST SDK doesn't support that. I can only get the current value in VST specific format but not the 'other' values. Now you could say store all value strings in a memory table, but note there are billions of different values. So that would only be possible by seriously quantizing the vst parameter value range which is a serious penalty imho. So that's why in MuLab/MUX VST parm values are always displayed as percentages. But now i've finetuned it so that a VST parm editor shows the value in real VST format. This does not apply to envelope points though, as that's not possible, VST SDK doesn't support that, but it does work well for parm editors. See the next M6.5.26, available soon.When I drag-drop a parameter on an auto track and the vst units are in dB but the front panel is %, I need to quickly glance back and forth to compare the automation %, front panel % and vst knob dB and get it right. Perhaps you can also include a 'units window' to the right of the 'name window' ?
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- KVRist
- 82 posts since 16 Jun, 2005
hello, creator, users,
have mentioned this couple of pages ago, there exists one somewhat quirky thing with the new distortion module.
within the windows 32 bit version, when inputting numeric values through the keyboard for the input gain parameter, it offsets the value with some strange scaling (in order to achieve the +6.00 dB setting, one must input 19.81, +12.00 dB requires the 28.56 value).
the output gain does work in the most correct manner, though (that is why one might think that the other's behaviour does not work as intented).
tested this through defining one meta-parameter for it, too, but it behaves the same way.
is there any chance to have it corrected still before release?
even if not crucial, it would be really great.
now again, back to enjoy the infiniteness of mutools, with great hopes looking forward to see the release, all the best.
have mentioned this couple of pages ago, there exists one somewhat quirky thing with the new distortion module.
within the windows 32 bit version, when inputting numeric values through the keyboard for the input gain parameter, it offsets the value with some strange scaling (in order to achieve the +6.00 dB setting, one must input 19.81, +12.00 dB requires the 28.56 value).
the output gain does work in the most correct manner, though (that is why one might think that the other's behaviour does not work as intented).
tested this through defining one meta-parameter for it, too, but it behaves the same way.
is there any chance to have it corrected still before release?
even if not crucial, it would be really great.
now again, back to enjoy the infiniteness of mutools, with great hopes looking forward to see the release, all the best.
Last edited by NadirToZenith on Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 13867 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
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- KVRist
- 82 posts since 16 Jun, 2005
hello,
working on some kind of one crude approximation of what happens at the hot, cold, biasing of the triode tube in order to push its current limiting into the positive, negative, regions of the audio signal, that is why this feels more important than, perhaps, ought to be felt.
thanks again, back to playground, also waiting for the release.
hurrah, halleluyah, thank you million times!mutools wrote:fixed in the next version
working on some kind of one crude approximation of what happens at the hot, cold, biasing of the triode tube in order to push its current limiting into the positive, negative, regions of the audio signal, that is why this feels more important than, perhaps, ought to be felt.
thanks again, back to playground, also waiting for the release.
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- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Random little "heads up!" on how beautiful song editing is now with the visible collapsed tracks. It's fantastic!
The envelope point copy of parameters is pure joy, what a massive improvement that "little" thing is.
Altogether, I'm a little baffled about the leaps and bounds this recent round of updates has made MuLab push forward. It's fantastic, Jo!
Currently I'm almost exclusively doing OSC experiments, which takes me off of making MUX synths right now, plus my loss of keyboard (again) didn't help either. But as soon as I've cured myself of both things (haha), I will go dive back into MUX synth creation.
HOWEVER, I'm using a lot of MUX to do effects patches and synth control schemes for drums and special effects, for example, using the glorious Note Event Pads and a variety of modules. I think, MuLab is truly becoming a DAW to beat.
To me the still shakiest or least "attractive" parts are all things mastering. I know, it's probably all brilliant in theory, but honestly, it's just doesn't yet compete with even free vsts for limiting or compression solutions. I'm trying, but there's just something... ...I can't put my finger on it. I wished I could. I would not be surprised, if a totally seasoned professional would know exactly how to use the MUX effects for those things without any troubles. Somehow...I'm not there, yet.
BUT at least you can get perfect sounding tracks with no extra costs and for everything else I consider MuLab unmatched, honestly!
The envelope point copy of parameters is pure joy, what a massive improvement that "little" thing is.
Altogether, I'm a little baffled about the leaps and bounds this recent round of updates has made MuLab push forward. It's fantastic, Jo!
Currently I'm almost exclusively doing OSC experiments, which takes me off of making MUX synths right now, plus my loss of keyboard (again) didn't help either. But as soon as I've cured myself of both things (haha), I will go dive back into MUX synth creation.
HOWEVER, I'm using a lot of MUX to do effects patches and synth control schemes for drums and special effects, for example, using the glorious Note Event Pads and a variety of modules. I think, MuLab is truly becoming a DAW to beat.
To me the still shakiest or least "attractive" parts are all things mastering. I know, it's probably all brilliant in theory, but honestly, it's just doesn't yet compete with even free vsts for limiting or compression solutions. I'm trying, but there's just something... ...I can't put my finger on it. I wished I could. I would not be surprised, if a totally seasoned professional would know exactly how to use the MUX effects for those things without any troubles. Somehow...I'm not there, yet.
BUT at least you can get perfect sounding tracks with no extra costs and for everything else I consider MuLab unmatched, honestly!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 13867 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Thx for your support & feedback Taron! Much appreciated. You're a special and talented man. Cheers on being here.
Step by step MuLab and MUX will grow on, if the gods allow me. I'm eager to start on M7, after a little holiday break
About mastering: Are you talking about the compressor? Filters? ... If you could already define what aspect, we can start focusing more in detail on it. Not for M6.5 but for a next main update.
Cheers!
Step by step MuLab and MUX will grow on, if the gods allow me. I'm eager to start on M7, after a little holiday break
About mastering: Are you talking about the compressor? Filters? ... If you could already define what aspect, we can start focusing more in detail on it. Not for M6.5 but for a next main update.
Cheers!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 13867 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
New MuLab 6.5.26 release candidate version in http://www.mutools.com/forsythia
Latest changes:
OSX: Simply replace the MuLab.app by the new version.
Windows: Simply replace the MuLab.exe + MuLab.ID files by the new versions.
How to upgrade from earlier versions eg M6.4: Make a full new install from the M6.5.7 package cfr the info on
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/ ... ation.html
Then apply this latest app patch.
Latest changes:
- Added a preference whether the new focused VST parameter editor should be Large - Small - Off. Default = Small.
- If the above preference is off, then the "Drag Last Tweaked Parameter" is back in the context menu.
And also a new "Edit Last Tweaked Parameter" is in the context menu then, which allows to use all advantages of such bridge parameter editor, but without having it all the time on all editors. - When dragging a parameter value onto an envelope editor now a more sweet real envelope point is drawn as drag image instead of a little rectangle.
- Amp. Distortion: Fixed an issue with inputting a value for the Input Gain parameter.
- Fixed an issue with the value display of the modulation monitor: It was not big enough to display all possible values between -999.9% and +999.9%.
- Fixed an ambiguous issue with the border spacing for front panel components.
This affects audio level meter, mixer strip and modulation monitor components.
It may be that, depending on how they were added, they had a small border spacing in previous versions, but that was not intended, and has gone now. The overall position, size, coloring etc is preserved, but as the border spacing is gone, they may look a little bigger now.
OSX: Simply replace the MuLab.app by the new version.
Windows: Simply replace the MuLab.exe + MuLab.ID files by the new versions.
How to upgrade from earlier versions eg M6.4: Make a full new install from the M6.5.7 package cfr the info on
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mulab/ ... ation.html
Then apply this latest app patch.
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
A question... When selecting a VST the focus is on the interface. So no background functions work like playback etc. Is there a setting for that? Thought I remembered something, maybe not? Thanks!
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- KVRist
- 82 posts since 16 Jun, 2005
hello, Jo (if am allowed), Taron,
in such very short time, one can only feel the possibilities of the program, but the boundaries set in order to achieve the intentionally simplified workflow are, at times, some tiny little bit constricting.
modeling complex behaviours (such as with mastering compressors, limiters, physical modelling of phenomena for instruments), perhaps, would require that different types of signals could be connected, or at least somehow transformed between different types of modules.
one other possibility could be one new module that could receive simple mathematical formulas, expressions (connectable, mixable, with every type of output, input).
one step in the evolution of the program, perhaps, could be the implementation of modularity in the program architecture, from the ground up, including the possibility of the usage of some kind of embedded language (just similarly to alias-wavefront maya or sidefx houdini).
having really no knowledge about the complexities of such programming tasks, these quite possibly unworkable ideas here are written only try to illustrate what one might feel after one week of documentation lookup plus most intense experimentation.
mutools, mux, both are very beautifully conceived, with brilliantly weighted simplifications, beautifully sounding oscillators, filters, nearly every little thing is thought of, if not yet, it will come in the next build, really hats off for the great support, too!
thanks for the possibility of testing, using, it before deciding the next step.
wish you all the best, waiting for the release...
in such very short time, one can only feel the possibilities of the program, but the boundaries set in order to achieve the intentionally simplified workflow are, at times, some tiny little bit constricting.
modeling complex behaviours (such as with mastering compressors, limiters, physical modelling of phenomena for instruments), perhaps, would require that different types of signals could be connected, or at least somehow transformed between different types of modules.
one other possibility could be one new module that could receive simple mathematical formulas, expressions (connectable, mixable, with every type of output, input).
one step in the evolution of the program, perhaps, could be the implementation of modularity in the program architecture, from the ground up, including the possibility of the usage of some kind of embedded language (just similarly to alias-wavefront maya or sidefx houdini).
having really no knowledge about the complexities of such programming tasks, these quite possibly unworkable ideas here are written only try to illustrate what one might feel after one week of documentation lookup plus most intense experimentation.
mutools, mux, both are very beautifully conceived, with brilliantly weighted simplifications, beautifully sounding oscillators, filters, nearly every little thing is thought of, if not yet, it will come in the next build, really hats off for the great support, too!
thanks for the possibility of testing, using, it before deciding the next step.
wish you all the best, waiting for the release...
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Hello ...could you answer my question please? Thank you...
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- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Hey Nadir, as much as I have always loved the idea of having some math modules available, I understand the complication of anti-aliasing for sounds, which makes such modules probably a little trickier to universally offer, I could imagine. But it would most certainly add another dimension to the design possibilities.
However, as for mastering tools...man, I really would like for you to see my face when I'm trying to explain that, haha... it's so difficult, I'm all contorted. <sigh> ok, I... maybe I will devote some time to see, if I can come up with a mastering mux that mimics the beauty of Maxwell_Smart or even "LoudMax". They are very explicit: INPUT gain turns into OUTPUT gain.
For example, you can see that your original gain peaks at around -7db. So You set your INPUT(original) gain to -7db and your OUTPUT gain to 0db and it will push everything up to 0 db, while it also levels out what goes beyond -7db. It's most certainly a combination of compression and limiter, but the result is simply perfect. I mean: perfect. No distortion, no surprising peaks or anything, it's just rock solid.
As for the filter section. I wished it was possible to control the frequency drop-off more obviously. If I use a lowpass or a highpass, I wished I could get sharper drops without pushing up the threshold frequency. In other words, I'd love to have more control over the shape of the filters, that includes the peak (EQ) filters, of course. For a totally comfortable mastering, I'm sure not only a graphical display, but even more "brutal" control would really be ideal.
These are the "two" troubles I have with mastering mux modules. And I still feel somewhat insecure to talk about these.
Besides those little things: THANK YOU, JO, I'm very happy you feel that way and I'm beyond happy I found you! 
However, as for mastering tools...man, I really would like for you to see my face when I'm trying to explain that, haha... it's so difficult, I'm all contorted. <sigh> ok, I... maybe I will devote some time to see, if I can come up with a mastering mux that mimics the beauty of Maxwell_Smart or even "LoudMax". They are very explicit: INPUT gain turns into OUTPUT gain.
For example, you can see that your original gain peaks at around -7db. So You set your INPUT(original) gain to -7db and your OUTPUT gain to 0db and it will push everything up to 0 db, while it also levels out what goes beyond -7db. It's most certainly a combination of compression and limiter, but the result is simply perfect. I mean: perfect. No distortion, no surprising peaks or anything, it's just rock solid.
As for the filter section. I wished it was possible to control the frequency drop-off more obviously. If I use a lowpass or a highpass, I wished I could get sharper drops without pushing up the threshold frequency. In other words, I'd love to have more control over the shape of the filters, that includes the peak (EQ) filters, of course. For a totally comfortable mastering, I'm sure not only a graphical display, but even more "brutal" control would really be ideal.
These are the "two" troubles I have with mastering mux modules. And I still feel somewhat insecure to talk about these.
Besides those little things: THANK YOU, JO, I'm very happy you feel that way and I'm beyond happy I found you!
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- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Hey, I just realized that same thing and wondered, if that was something new? Felt like it didn't act that way before, right, with losing focus of the background - like the virtual keyboard, for example.DHR53 wrote:Hello ...could you answer my question please? Thank you...
Even weirder is, that not all VSTs seem to act that way!
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Could that be set so background tasks work while the interface is being tweaked etc. ??? Seems like I have to select interface again to enable playback.recording over and over. Hmmm...