KVR Audio

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:40 am

Voice303 wrote:
Hez wrote:Hi Andrew,

Have you had a chance to look into the bug where Kaleidoscope loses all of its current patch settings frequently on Bitwig? At the moment I have to constantly save any minor tweaks I make to a patch as presets, as within 2-3 minutes of messing around elsewhere on a project I'll come back to Kaleidoscope and it has reverted to minimum values for several of the settings (e.g. tuning sets itself to lowest possible value, image maps clear and get disabled). This doesn't happen with either of the other 2c-Audio plugins I own (Breeze & B2).

Also, I noticed some mentions of an update somewhere in the possibly-near future for KS? Any teasers you can drop yet :p?

Cheers
I know Dennis was looking at this at one point. I stopped using Kaleidoscope in Bitwig in the meantime and just use it in Cubase now which also has also eliminated pops and clicks audio backend. Its also worse with certain audio interfaces in Bitwig as the audio engine can't seem to handle the plugin latency with certain ASIO buffer sizes... I don't know the technical details but I do know the same thing "just works" in Cubase.

Yeah I could never get anything useful out of kaleidoscope in bitwig. It was just constant crackling. Unfortunately it's the only DAW I use though. So it made it a no go. It would be cool if the 2caudio guys could test in bitwig too.

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:45 am

I' amazed on how KS emulates sound textures that reminds very closely the sound of a large bowed string section, knowing that the inherent technology is also involved in the emulation of plucked strings

with the addition of an appropriate hall simulation, wow..!

I'm wondering if KS could be able to approach in his sonic textures the timbres of other instruments (brass, woodwinds) of orchestra...

2ca · Post by **2ca** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:50 am

Regarding BitWig: I tested/checked our plug-ins in BitWig, indeed there is a problem with saving state, which concerns all our plug-ins.
My conclusion was that the problem is in BitWig as it returns corrupted plug-in state, so I emailed all the necessary technical info to BitWig. I emailed them twice but still got no reply back. I need a feedback from them in order to fix this.

Denis,
2CAudio

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:56 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:Loungey stuff:
String synth and shaker loop processed by one instance of Kaleidoscope, some ÜberMod delays are processing the Kaleidoscope signal.

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/l ... -patchpool

Very interesting to hear there the sketch of a composition in where KS is involved without imposing it character to the whole arrangement, IMO...

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:22 am

Krakatau wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Loungey stuff:
String synth and shaker loop processed by one instance of Kaleidoscope, some ÜberMod delays are processing the Kaleidoscope signal.

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/l ... -patchpool
Very interesting to hear there the sketch of a composition in where KS is involved without imposing it character to the whole arrangement, IMO...

I think KS works both ways, you either use it to create a tonal background ambience from instruments being played in the foreground (as demonstrated in that demo), or you use it as textural solo instrument which draws the attention away from everything else surrounding it

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:48 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Krakatau wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Loungey stuff:
String synth and shaker loop processed by one instance of Kaleidoscope, some ÜberMod delays are processing the Kaleidoscope signal.

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/l ... -patchpool
Very interesting to hear there the sketch of a composition in where KS is involved without imposing it character to the whole arrangement, IMO...
I think KS works both ways, you either use it to create a tonal background ambience from instruments being played in the foreground (as demonstrated in that demo), or you use it as textural solo instrument which draws the attention away from everything else surrounding it

Glad to hear that, though i may admit that at my level of experimentation i don't figure out apart from any static modes a use in where KS could work without imposing the richness and sophistication it complex textures...

...as far as i can see, the very subtle correlation it enhance with a image might have a use in movies/clips post-production, (for instance a travelling camera effect in where the peculiar place captured (a single take, then...) by the could be summarized with a certain accuracy, as a static image ! (that KS can handle, then)

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:10 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:Improvising with three similar presets changing root notes and other things on the fly. ÜberMod and Relayer are providing the space to fly in. Input source is a mixture of rainmaker swishes and waterfall percussion.

Nice summer chill-out vibe in this one!

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:16 am

Sampleconstruct wrote: I think KS works both ways, you either use it to create a tonal background ambience from instruments being played in the foreground (as demonstrated in that demo), or you use it as textural solo instrument which draws the attention away from everything else surrounding it

...or use it to generate everything and create entire compositions and sound-scuptures this way like I've done here:

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wa ... ian-fields

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wa ... e-of-light

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wa ... se-in-bali

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wayfarer-cocoon

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wayfarer-kapteyn-b

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter/wayfarer-nani-nani

KS is the ONLY sound-generator here. There was no input/source sound for used in any of these pieces. All sound is KS and our verbs. Nothing else (except perhaps basic EQ and mastering compression.)

The trick of these deep shifting ambient pad sounds is to feed KS into B2 and/or Aether...

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:08 pm

So is there any automation here ?
...or then they are single cycle towards the entire soundtake ?
...or (more likely) multiple instances with some automation process ?

or what...?????????

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:11 pm

I would love to see some 'making of...' videos for those (esp Cocoon)

Great work!

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:59 pm

Krakatau wrote:So is there any automation here ?

Automation of KS parameters? No.

Automation of host track gain, and potentially simple 3rd party EQ such as High/Low Pass filters? Yes... Although nothing particularly fancy... just stuff to fade in/out the KS sources in a smooth manner over long periods of time.

Krakatau wrote: ...or then they are single cycle towards the entire soundtake ?

Many use very long periods of such as some division of 256 or 512 measures... So they evolve quite slowly.

Different tracks use different period lengths to avoid exact repetitions.

Krakatau wrote: ...or (more likely) multiple instances with some automation process ?
or what...?????????

In some cases, more melodic sounds, or sounds with chord progression structures, are rendered with different tuning varieties and then crossfaded in the host to achieve more elaborate harmonic development... I guess we could call this "manual automation"?

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:00 pm

aMUSEd wrote:I would love to see some 'making of...' videos for those (esp Cocoon)

Great work!

Thanks man.

Actually Cocoon is one of the most simple ones. It uses:

9 instances of KS.
5 Instances of B2
1 Izoptope Ozone EQ
1 Waves S1
1 Waves V-Comp
2 Waves L2

There is NO plug-in automation at all.
One Send level (going into B2) is automated.
All tracks have volume automation.

That's it!

It was all done live at the same time and only the master/mix was exported.... see attached. (Zoom and scroll if you are not using a 4K display...

)

http://2caudio.com/sitecontent/products ... Mix_KS.png

Hez · Post by **Hez** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:26 pm

2ca wrote:Regarding BitWig: I tested/checked our plug-ins in BitWig, indeed there is a problem with saving state, which concerns all our plug-ins.
My conclusion was that the problem is in BitWig as it returns corrupted plug-in state, so I emailed all the necessary technical info to BitWig. I emailed them twice but still got no reply back. I need a feedback from them in order to fix this.

Denis,
2CAudio

Hi Denis,

Cheers for the response. I'll get in touch with Bitwig, hopefully if the other Bitwig users above (hi guys!) also file a bug report we might be able to gain some traction. From an audio perspective I'm fine - get the same pops and crackles as other people in the thread are describing with other DAWs when I automate parameters, but smooth sound otherwise. It's just the constant state loss that's a pain.

Phorous · Post by **Phorous** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:34 pm

Hez wrote: hopefully if the other Bitwig users above (hi guys!) also file a bug report we might be able to gain some traction.

Will do. The bug drove me to insane levels of paranoia constantly saving my B2/KS settings to presets after any editing, before I would stop playback, close my DAW or even step away from the computer for a few minutes. Would like to see it fixed as much as you

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:47 am

A very cool example of KS, B2 etc in action:

I had the pleasure to help my friend Sonic Mayhem (Sascha D) with his Doomsday album, doing some custom sound design etc. We used Kaliedoscope extensively and all reverbs on the project are 2CAudio, With B2 being the most prominent. Really cool to hear how Sascha blended these with retro analog synths and various aggressive drums. Very creative journey... Cinematic I would say, which is not surprising given his extensive game scoring history. Great work Sascha. Always fun!

http://www.doomsday.sonicmayhem.com
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/doomsday/id1017777866
https://sonicmayhem.bandcamp.com

Direct soundcloud links to follow...

Anyway I think this is a really awesome example of KS in the real world where it is used intelligently as part of the big picture and mixes with all sorts of other ingredients and influences.

The whole thing is bathed in B2 also.

2CAudio Kaleidoscope | It's A Trip | Latest Update 1.1