when I record either analog or midi, the data within the clips moves ahead a random amount, sometimes up to 3 beats of a bar and at least an 1/8th note. Of course, this is hugely irritating, and now in T6 I'm finding some, not even all, of the tracks keep moving they're played.
This happens with most every occasion of recording. The sample buffer size is set to the smallest number. The displacement happens regardless of cursor position or snap being on/off when recording begins.
I hope someone has an insight...!
Thanks for your attention.
my tracks move on their own!
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
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- KVRist
- 273 posts since 2 Sep, 2004
Well tbh I have no idea what could be causing this.
If it was trailing behind I would have suggested some latency issue but in front?
Is it just Trackion or does it happen in other programs?
Always a good idea to put your operating system in your post which can help narrow things down.
Sorry I don't have an answer.
I just didn't want you thinking no one was listening but if no one else has this problem it is unlikely you will get an answer.
Maybe tomorrow someone will log in who can sort you out
If it was trailing behind I would have suggested some latency issue but in front?
Is it just Trackion or does it happen in other programs?
Always a good idea to put your operating system in your post which can help narrow things down.
Sorry I don't have an answer.
I just didn't want you thinking no one was listening but if no one else has this problem it is unlikely you will get an answer.
Maybe tomorrow someone will log in who can sort you out
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
Hi, Dave; my O.S. is Windows 7.
Last night I had this instance: very beginning of a new edit, having a 2-bar space before any input, commenced recording, upon stopping the first note had become the third, and the rest of the recording from note 4 onward overlaid the first 3 recorded, almost like a car that had rear-ended the one ahead.
I'm wondering if it could conceivably be a hardware problem. viz the keyboard/midi controller, but i cannot imagine what.
Last night I had this instance: very beginning of a new edit, having a 2-bar space before any input, commenced recording, upon stopping the first note had become the third, and the rest of the recording from note 4 onward overlaid the first 3 recorded, almost like a car that had rear-ended the one ahead.
I'm wondering if it could conceivably be a hardware problem. viz the keyboard/midi controller, but i cannot imagine what.
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
Is that with midi or audio?
You've not got quantise turned on the midi input have you? Go to the settings page, select your input, and check it's not turned on with some weird setting ... not recording in loop mode?
struggling to visualise what's going on, tbh
You've not got quantise turned on the midi input have you? Go to the settings page, select your input, and check it's not turned on with some weird setting ... not recording in loop mode?
struggling to visualise what's going on, tbh
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
Weird "Time adjust" setting on the audio input ...?
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRAF
- 2464 posts since 9 Oct, 2008 from UK
Do you have MIDI out going from your PC back to your MIDI instrument? If the instrument has MIDI Through set, that might possibly explain MIDI notes moving, but not analogue ones.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12/13, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
The problems have been with midi. I'll try audio as well and see what happens.
In the meantime, I'll try your suggestions and see what i can ferret out.
In the meantime, I recorded midi driving a hardware synth, so 2 tracks simultaneously. Once record was engaged, I could see the midi track (entire track, not only content) was 1 bar ahead of the audio. After stopping, the midi track had snapped back so beginning of both tracks was the same. The wave was in the right spot, midi data was precisely 1 beat ahead.
I just did a 2nd instance, this time playing as soon as recording began. After stopping, the first midi note was gone, all the others snapped forward. So, unless I let the recording run a bar or 2 without playing, the first note vanishes.
The problems have been with midi. I'll try audio as well and see what happens.
In the meantime, I'll try your suggestions and see what i can ferret out.
In the meantime, I recorded midi driving a hardware synth, so 2 tracks simultaneously. Once record was engaged, I could see the midi track (entire track, not only content) was 1 bar ahead of the audio. After stopping, the midi track had snapped back so beginning of both tracks was the same. The wave was in the right spot, midi data was precisely 1 beat ahead.
I just did a 2nd instance, this time playing as soon as recording began. After stopping, the first midi note was gone, all the others snapped forward. So, unless I let the recording run a bar or 2 without playing, the first note vanishes.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
Alright! I checked the sample rate setting on my interface (Scarlett18i20): 44100 Hz. In Tracktion settings: the same. I put them both to 96000, and voila! now there's a slight offset between midi and audio, less then a 64th note (hemidemisemiquaver, is it? 
) Damned if I know why there was a problem, though. Perhaps the problem is still there but just a less irksome offset.
In the event this problem raises it's head again, I suppose this is the answer. (?)
) Damned if I know why there was a problem, though. Perhaps the problem is still there but just a less irksome offset.In the event this problem raises it's head again, I suppose this is the answer. (?)
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
By the way, I think codewriters are basically sorcerers, and hats off to them!
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
I've done something similar in the past (not exactly the same, but similar), playing a roland drum kit, and recording the midi output from it, and at the same time, recording the audio output from it.
It sounds like you're recording the midi, routing it out to a synth, then recording the audio back from that, at the same time, so not exactly the same, but similar idea.
Have you done a loopback test on the audio input, after you changed the samplerate? Basically highlight the audio input, in the settings tab, and click the green "Auto Adjust" button, shown below;
You'll get a popup saying to connect a cable between your audio in and audio out, and it'll calculate the latency through the hardware, and pop your audio in the right place to compensate for that. You'll find the "Time Adjust" field gets a value in it, in milliseconds.
This is really so that audio tracks you record align exactly with other audio tracks you previously recorded in the edit, but if it doesn't automatically fix your audio and midi being slightly out, you can manually change the figure in Time Adjust, to compensate for the difference between where your midi and audio are recorded.
To do that accurately, i'd highlight the first midi note, and make a note of it's exact start time, and do the same with the first audio note (that's the same note, in the tune) and subtract the, err, smaller value from the bigger one. And put that in the Time Adjust field
I'm pretty sure that'll work, not quite so sure I've explained it very well ....
It sounds like you're recording the midi, routing it out to a synth, then recording the audio back from that, at the same time, so not exactly the same, but similar idea.
Have you done a loopback test on the audio input, after you changed the samplerate? Basically highlight the audio input, in the settings tab, and click the green "Auto Adjust" button, shown below;
You'll get a popup saying to connect a cable between your audio in and audio out, and it'll calculate the latency through the hardware, and pop your audio in the right place to compensate for that. You'll find the "Time Adjust" field gets a value in it, in milliseconds.
This is really so that audio tracks you record align exactly with other audio tracks you previously recorded in the edit, but if it doesn't automatically fix your audio and midi being slightly out, you can manually change the figure in Time Adjust, to compensate for the difference between where your midi and audio are recorded.
To do that accurately, i'd highlight the first midi note, and make a note of it's exact start time, and do the same with the first audio note (that's the same note, in the tune) and subtract the, err, smaller value from the bigger one. And put that in the Time Adjust field
I'm pretty sure that'll work, not quite so sure I've explained it very well ....
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"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRist
- 166 posts since 9 Nov, 2005 from Portland, Oregon
(you've described it well chico)
It seems that to bypass that time alignment issue, couldn't one play the midi control device (keys, drums, whatev) into the hardware synth and record its audio out, simultaneously recording the midi signals onto the second track via the midithru on the synth, and end up aligned?
It seems that to bypass that time alignment issue, couldn't one play the midi control device (keys, drums, whatev) into the hardware synth and record its audio out, simultaneously recording the midi signals onto the second track via the midithru on the synth, and end up aligned?
Hoozda Band
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
#chico.co/ metrognome, thanks for your input. The offset between the audio and midi is 60 ms., more or less. I mostly use softsynths, so my major issue is with the data on the midi tracks being displaced. So far I haven't learned the underlying cause, just heard about and developed some work-arounds that aren't entirely satisfactory. I suppose i may have to resort to trial by error to find what to do.
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- KVRAF
- 2464 posts since 9 Oct, 2008 from UK
Sounds like it's just latency, for which you can adjust. A MIDI message is tiny compared to audio. For a MIDI message, you're talking about a few bytes. Maybe 4 or 5. There's almost no processing to record it. Now think of audio; you're talking 96,000 samples per second, and each sample is 32 or 64 bit, so 4 or 8 bytes, 96,000 times a second. This is hugely, massively, enormously more data than your tiny MIDI message. Plus something has to process your key press to turn it into audio, and then all this audio needs possibly sending through effects and recording as well and; this adds more time delay. This is why latency exists.
[W10-64, T5/6/7/W8/9/10/11/12/13, 32(to W8)&64 all, Spike],[W7-32, T5/6/7/W8, Gina16] everything underused.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 16 posts since 5 May, 2014
#chico.uk, I forgot to add i tried the Timeadjust tactic you suggested, and didn't work.
#jabe, As I said initially, the problem is that the midi tracks jump ahead, whether or not the midi track is driving a hardware synth. This is about 1/2 beat, or roughly 60 ms. @ 120 bpm. I've long since adjusted the latency to the optimum sample rate.
#jabe, As I said initially, the problem is that the midi tracks jump ahead, whether or not the midi track is driving a hardware synth. This is about 1/2 beat, or roughly 60 ms. @ 120 bpm. I've long since adjusted the latency to the optimum sample rate.
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
Actually, what I described isn't a workaround, it's how the program works, and what you should do.tonecrafter wrote:#chico.co/ metrognome, thanks for your input. The offset between the audio and midi is 60 ms., more or less. I mostly use softsynths, so my major issue is with the data on the midi tracks being displaced. So far I haven't learned the underlying cause, just heard about and developed some work-arounds that aren't entirely satisfactory. I suppose i may have to resort to trial by error to find what to do.
You said it didn't work. I'm not sure why it didn't work, because it does work on my machine.
You'd probably need to describe what you did, to help figure people out why what you did didn't work.
Just noticed you now say you mostly use soft synths. Previously you said you were outputing midi to hardware synths, and recording the audio from those, unless I misunderstood. You'd compensate for that differently than how you'd compensate for soft synths.
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"