Choosing between Bitwig and Ableton

[arca0]

Hi,
I'm just beginning my music making adventures and spent some time testing various DAWs. I narrowed my options down to Ableton Live 9 and Bitwig Studio. I am, however, on a limited budget, so could only afford software up to Bitwig price (so Ableton Intro version).
I am looking for a piece of software I could really dig in to, something that will take a while to learn, but also won't require me to upgrade or buy a lot of additional instruments/plugins too soon (I'm aware built in stuff will get replaced eventually, I just want enough samples/loops/instruments to fuel the learning period). Having said that, the 8 scene/16 track limitation in Ableton is really putting me off and I like the simplicity of Bitwig licensing - just buy one product and you're set. On the other hand, Ableton does seem to be more expandable and powerful, the packs quality is great and the way it's all unified and accessible is really something.

At this point I'd appreciate any insights you might have that would help me make the decision (but please don't suggest any other software - it took me long enough to get the options down to two ). Thanks in advance.

[mrcleats]

I'd keep my eye on the Marketplace forum if I were you - for 50% more (ok, I know that's a lot, but it's worth the stretch if you can do it) than the list price of Intro you'll often get a full copy of Bitwig, and there are often some very tempting offers on Ableton Live too. If you're willing to go for Ableton Live 8 I've seen it being sold ridiculously cheaply here and on Ableton's forum - just make sure you get someone with good feedback (search the Marketplace feedback thread) if you want to be sure of your ground.

[Daags]

ya, you can get a used Ableton Live 8 Suite for dirt cheap if you're patient. That's the license I'd recommend.

Regarding Ableton's update policy ... well, when they get around to announcing Live 10, there will be a grace period. So if you would wait until then to upgrade to Live 9, you would also get a Live 10 license 'free' as soon as it is released.

That's how I usually roll, as a Live user since V4 I've found the first year of a new Live release is too buggy/instable for my uses... so I have no issue being a version behind.


Bitwig has a lot of potential, but the most interesting feature (access to the modular framework used for the creation of its built in instruments & fx) for me won't come until V2 .... that plus the fact the GUI can't be resized (and this won't be addressed in V1) makes it a non-runner for me until at least V2. And I really want to get on the BitWig love train.


so, long story short, I suggest aiming for a used Live 8 Suite license...and research M4L and see if that's something you'd be interested in. (can also be picked up used)

[fedexnman]

+1 to what Daags said . Get a used license of Live8 or Live8Suite or a used Bitwig license .

[arca0]

Thanks for your posts. I have indeed started following marketplaces on both these forums, keeping my hopes up even though I still haven't decided what I'd prefer.

I generally had no problems with Bitwig's interface so that's not a problem for me, at least not at the moment. Is the modular framework you're mentioning something similar to Max for Live? I did not dig into that yet but it seems like a vast idea, certainly something interesting.

I would not mind staying a version behind - especially since Ableton has been around for a while, the software is mature enough. If I could get an older Suite for a reasonable price, that's definitely an option.

[ThomasHelzle]

IMO you can't go wrong with either of them, both are great DAWs, both can be found cheaper used here on KVR.

Live is around for a long time which has it's pros and it's cons but of course makes it a solid investment, a lot of people use it, know it and swear on it. As you say, there are a lot of sound packs, videos etc.
The included sounds are good, the instruments decent and the effects depend a lot on personal taste (like everything in music), I hardly used them.
Bitwig is the new kid on the block, has some tricks up it's sleeve that Live hasn't (the modulation system, plugin crash protection and bridging, great GUI, audio and midi receivers, multiple project tabs, can put any device in any order into one device chain, hybrid tracks...) and for me is much more fun, since it thinks the way I do.

I sold my live suite & m4l in the meantime.

As for instruments/effects: there are so many brilliant free and cheap VST plugins available, I personally don't bother too much about what's included in a DAW. The instruments in Bitwig are decent, can be very good in the right hands, but are not mindblowing IMO (good for learning though). The effects I find much more to my liking as the ones in Live and regularly use them.

As for samples and loops: Both come with a good basic set, but again, I wouldn't worry about that too much. You can download GIgs of samples and loops from for instance MusicRadar (http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/sam ... ads-217833), can get tons with the CM magazine or as tasters from sample vendors.

Follow this site: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/ and you should have something new and free to play with whenever you feel like it...

Good luck with your decision.
Follow your heart!

Cheers,

Tom

[Regnas]

My choice is Bitwig.
Why?: It seems to have a more bright future between the two, and the workflow is better than ableton imho..

[BDeep]

If the choice is between Live Intro and Bitwig, it's easy: Bitwig. However, as others have pointed out, look out for second hand licenses (for Live 8, but Live 9 goes a lot cheaper than retail price too).
Live is tried and tested, and I think one very important advantage if you're starting out: many people are using it and thus there are many tutorials available and a big active community should you need help. Ableton also has frequent workshops throughout the world. Although I'm sure that Bitwig is steadily growing in this department too.
I don't really agree on the brighter future of Bitwig as per the previous poster. I think both are doing fine. In fact Live has had some excellent updates since Bitwig came out (for that, I'm glad Bitwig showed up on the scene! ).
But I may be a bit biased as Live user. Either is a fine choice.
Anyway, you should use what you feels best to you and stick to that.

Btw, one last word on the price, I really really and honestly understand that it's an important factor, but a DAW that you feel you can work in and makes you productive makes so much of a difference that it may be better to save a little more and get exactly what you want.

[elxsound]

In case you haven't figured out yet... You're going to get quite a few responses on here saying to definitely do this or definitely do that.

Bitwig is nice for some of things ThomasHeizle mentioned, but for me there are just too many things that just won't get addressed in v1 (and officially stated as so) that keeps me away.

One thing I'll add is that you can buy Live 9 without fear that the'll drop 10 soon. You'll get your money worth if you purchase, but definitely buy in the marketplace for either choice.

I've been a Live user since 2007. Both Live and Bitwig have great futures... so again, don't get bogged down various reports that one is better just because someone says so. The existence of both is great for all users, as competition brings out the best (and these are direct competitors). I think which ever direction you choose, you should be happy.

My word of advice is to demo, demo, demo. The more you use, the more you can ask specific questions about the differences. Also, any information about what you intend to work on... Live performance, Music composition, Music for film, Sound Design (music or film) might help people provide more specific answer that will help you.

[Clearscreen]

My 2c - Bitwig has better workflow generally, but Live has better sounding time stretching for now... Otherwise they both do a pretty good job.

[Kalamata Kid]

Perhaps reexamine FL Studio with the lifetime free full version updates
and Mulab which is priced very reasonably.

[rod_zero]

Whatever you learn with one will be transfarable to the other.

Did you already used the 30 day demo of Ableton Live? If not, give it a go and save in the meantime.

And yes, you can find good deals on Live 8 or 9 here in the market place.

[Regnas]

Perhaps reexamine FL Studio with the lifetime free full version updates
and Mulab which is priced very reasonably.

I was about to say that, but the OP seems very confident on his choices, so I shutted my mouth...FL's piano roll alone is already a good investment........

[koshal]

I own both and am looking to get rid of my Bitwig license. If you decide to go that route I can let it go for a reasonable price and give you a good deal. PM if you're interested in.

To actually answer your question, I recently retired Reason as my primary composition/arranging tool. After evaluating (and owning) both Bitwig and Ableton they both have their strengths and weaknesses. It's actually pretty amazing where Bitwig is at only being at a 1.x release. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

There were a couple of limitations in Bitwig that made me choose Ableton. But that's to be expected with a young product. I definitely see myself going for Bitwig as my primary tool in the future if they resolve a few of my gripes which mainly are related to the way they handle midi tracks.

[arca0]

Thanks everyone, this has been eye opening for me in many ways!

Also, any information about what you intend to work on... Live performance, Music composition, Music for film, Sound Design (music or film) might help people provide more specific answer that will help you.

My primary interest is in music composition, mostly in the area of experimental electronic music (still fleshing out the details), with live performance being a close second. I'm confident both DAWs are pretty great at what I need, although it felt like Bitwig's interface was a lil bit more intuitive - especially workflow-wise - it seemed easier to transform what was happening live into a fixed composition (sorry if it seems like I'm babbling - as an amateur I have not built my vocab yet to talk about this stuff ) which is how I work most of the time.