KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:27 am

Since i found a SX3 installer and got A1 working in Cubase Pro 8 64-bit (see my post above) i admit that the sound of A1 is indeed nice. Anyway i still admit that compared to Largo it is very simple (which could be good or bad depending on how you use it) and of course also Largo could sound really great while both are maybe not really similar sounding. Will try to do some direct comparison soon.

Anyway one issue with newer versions of Cubase is that while you could load/import fxp/fxb files in the VST2 plugins you could save them only in Cubases own format. Currently this is no big issue but if A1 should be used in other hosts (which obviously is not possible now) this could be a problem if you want to use your patches created in Cubase.
Anyway loading an A1 preset saved in the Cubase format seems to work nicely so far.

If Waldorf would decide to re-release A1 this would involve some re-writing of the engine, also to get it usable with all hosts and also as 64-bit, VST3, AU and AAX plugins. As A1 was built for Cubase only i am quite sure there was no AU version for OSX yet.

Another issue i found with A1 is that most knobs seem to work in an exponential way which means that if a certain knobs looks like it is at around 60% or more in reality the value is only around 25% (e.g. with filter keytracking). The Detune knob when it looks like 50 in reality is only at 12 cents (maximum is 100). The FM knob when set to the center is just at 7 % (maximum 100%).
In a theroretical (nobody knows if this would ever happen...) update this should be changed to linear behavior for many knobs which would not affect existing pathces as the values are the same.

2 features i am really missing in A1 are a Dry/Wet kn for the Chorus, Osc Sync and assignable aftertouch modulation (like those knobs for Modwheel modulation).

FWIW the issues and missing features i just reported seem to work nicely in Largo. I know that both synths are not identical while from the same developer and they also seem to share some similar features.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:06 am

Ingonator wrote: If Waldorf would decide to re-release A1 this would involve some re-writing of the engine, also to get it usable with all hosts and also as 64-bit, VST3, AU and AAX plugins. Not sure if for OSX an AU even existed and AFAIK the old plugin does not work in newer OSX versions.

There is no AU version, since this instrument is meant to work inside Cubase alone. Besides, in Mac OS X, the VstPlugIns folder where the Steinberg exclusive plug-ins reside is "inside" the application (which, in OS X, is actually a folder in disguise). Anyway, A1 still works in newer OS X versions (last time I tested it was in OS X 10.9.x). I am running it for compatibility with old sequences where I used it.

It is indeed a simple synth, when compared to most modern ones, but I also agree that it has a character of his own. If Waldorf should re-release it? I'm not certain, but if they do, they should add some bells and whistles to the pack, IMO, while maintaining compatibility.

Largo is in a diferente league - a dynamic wavetable synth. You may achieve similar results in certain sounds, but Largo is much more complex, and using it for the kind of sounds A1 produces would be a bit reductionist (again, IMO).

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:13 am

fmr wrote: There is no AU version, since this instrument is meant to work inside Cubase alone. Besides, in Mac OS X, the VstPlugIns folder where the Steinberg exclusive plug-ins reside is "inside" the application (which, in OS X, is actually a folder in disguise). Anyway, A1 still works in newer OS X versions (last time I tested it was in OS X 10.9.x). I am running it for compatibility with old sequences where I used it.

I had just noticed this myself (there is no AU as it is Cubase only...) and corrected my post while you posted your reply.

Anyway while i do not use OSX myself it is good to know that generally it still seems to work as a VST in OSX.

I did not really expect that i could get this working in Cubase Pro 8 64-bit without bigger problems. Looks like the VST backwards compatibility of Cubase 8 is better than i thought it is.

Anyway as it still works in Windows 7 it would be interesting to see how it work in Windows 10 that is close now.

fmr wrote: If Waldorf should re-release it? I'm not certain, but if they do, they should add some bells and whistles to the pack, IMO, while maintaining compatibility.

I mostly agree. Besides all current plugin formats and the ability to use in all hosts a new version should include at least a few new features (if this would ever happen of course...)

Anyway after checking A1 now an updated version of it could maybe make sense indeed. Maybe as a part of a Waldorf Edition 3.

Would be another nice "entry level" synth in Waldorf Edition besides PPG 2.V.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:36 am

Ingonator wrote: Anyway as it still works in Windows 7 it would be interesting to see how it work in Windows 10 that is close now.

Hmmm... I may try it. I am a "Windows Insider" and have Windows 10 running on one machine now. It's just a matter of installing Cubase Pro 8 and try A1 in it. Maybe I give it an hour this weekend to try it

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:39 am

Ingonator wrote: Anyway after checking A1 now an updated version of it could maybe make sense indeed. Maybe as a part of a Waldorf Edition 3.
Would be another nice "entry level" synth in Waldorf Edition besides PPG 2.V.

I totally second that

but before I would like to see Largo upgraded

(you know... with those things we have been discussing

)

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:23 pm

Just tried matching a similar patch in both A1 and Largo (both loaded in a single project at Cubase Pro 8.0.20 64-bit). Like in other comparisons in the past i used a Synth Brass patch for testing. First i like those sounds and second they seem to be good for testing the filter, the low end and envelope behavior.

Getting those really identical seems to be more difficult than i thought (if it is even possible to fully match them). Overal the basic sound in A1 seems to be more "ballsy" and also brighter. also the envelopes seem to behave slightly differently.
Was able to come closer in Largo with some "tricks" like e.g. adding the "Bass Boost" and the built-in EQ.

A part of the fat or "ballsy" sound in A1 also seems to be the Chorus FX that has no Dry/Wet control. This seems to have a quite big stereo widening effect.
A similar effect could be achieved with the Chorus in Largo when using the right settigs. With the correct settings and the Dry/Wet amount at maximum Largo seems to get that "fatter" sound too. Another option is to add more stereo widening with the Unison (just 2 voices is enough).

While Largo got a lot of options for tweaking the sound getting comparable results as in A1 needs some tweaking and to get those sounds fast and simple using the real A1 seems to be a better option.

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:11 pm

I'd pay a few bucks for it.. if waldorf/Steinberg released it somehow.

SweKjell · Post by **SweKjell** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:01 pm

@Ingonator: I f**king love you

! Now I can use the a1 again in my Cubase 8

It was all a matter of in which directory the plugin was put and you gave the solution

I salute you! Cheers!

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:54 pm

SweKjell wrote:@Ingonator: I f**king love you ! Now I can use the a1 again in my Cubase 8
It was all a matter of in which directory the plugin was put and you gave the solution
I salute you! Cheers!

Nice to hear you got it working too...

leebee · Post by **leebee** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:16 pm

Getting quite excited seeing this thread! I had my a1 .vst files filed under a folder 'powerpc no longer work' but excited to know it may still be possible - is this on a mac you've had it working in Cubase Pro 8 SweKjell?

I tried placing the a1 VST files in various folders Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-ins and Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/Steinberg, but it is not showing up inside 64bit Cubase Pro 8, either in the VST list, or in the Plug-in manager, when I refresh the list of instruments. Does anyone know the folder I would have to install the VST files into?

Fernando seems to have it working, at least up unto OS X 10.9, but maybe this is by dual installing SX3 alongside Pro8, which is fine.

I'm on a mac mini late 2012, running OS X 10.10

Also - thanks for the PPG patches @Ingonator - found them on another thread and have them installed!

Would appreciate any help, I have lots of projects using a1. Thanks!

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:44 pm

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Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:17 pm

yes, the filters, weight and overall snap of the synth are fantastic. Often I had to reach for the fader when auditioning patches. If you delve deep into programming this with cc using cubase remote scripts you'll discover some issues with the mapping which could be addressed if they ever do a version 2.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:13 pm

Not sure what's the problem with A1 in OSX as i never owned a Mac so far but in Windows it seems to be OK, while it is limited to be used in Cubase only (no other hosts).

Besides v1.0.1 of A1 that found with a Cubase SX3 download at the Steinberg ftp server (a link was posted in this thread) some months ago i also received a ZIP file from Wolfram Franke (the original developer that left Waldorf some years ago) which included an older verrsion v1.0.0.5 from 2002. During my first years as a Waldorf betatseter i met him twice at the Musikmesse (AFAIK in 2011 and 2012) and he was also respnsible for some tests where i participated including e.g. PPG Wave 3.V.

To make a long story short both A1 v1.0.1 and v1.0.0.5 seem to work properly here in Cubase 8.5 64-bit on Windows 10 64-bit /using the built-in bridge). I had copied the A1 VST plugin into my usual plugins folder.

I found it is also not necessary to keep Cubase SX3 installed. All you need is a valid Cubase license (somewhere between SX3 and the latest Cubase Pro 8.5 where the license is backwards compatible).

I do not think i am allowed to re-distribute the VST pplugin if someone would ask about that here...
Anyway here is the link for Cubase SX3 again (was a bit "hidden" so not so easy to find):
ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Cubase ... onversion/

Ingo

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:57 pm

leebee wrote: Fernando seems to have it working, at least up unto OS X 10.9, but maybe this is by dual installing SX3 alongside Pro8, which is fine.

Actually, I don't need (and I don't have) SX3 installed. I just have been copying the old plug-in files over and over into the new versions, up to now. And they have been working quite well, surprisingly.

leebee · Post by **leebee** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:11 pm

fmr wrote:
leebee wrote: Fernando seems to have it working, at least up unto OS X 10.9, but maybe this is by dual installing SX3 alongside Pro8, which is fine.
Actually, I don't need (and I don't have) SX3 installed. I just have been copying the old plug-in files over and over into the new versions, up to now. And they have been working quite well, surprisingly.

Thanks, Ingonator, Thanks Fernando - that's the dream! Are you able to share the folder(s) on Mac OS that you place the files in so I can try and see if it works on my machine? Thanks a lot.

Waldorf A1 synth (Cubase)... forgotten how good it is!