True analog modeling?

[Battle Cat]

To a surprisingly large degree the laws of electricity and mass spring systems are interchangeable. If you model a fluid as an array of nodes that have a mass each and that are connected by springs, the equations work the same way (the energy that leaves a node equals the energy that enters it, just like Kirchhoff's current law, that kind of stuff).

However, a more or less accurate model of a water glass will calculate a night or two for a few seconds of audio. This stuff works well for video (60 or so frames a second), but it'll be difficult to run it with 44100 frames per second

I am way more familiar with energy transfer across boundaries than coding, ultimately I am an end user. The acceptable value of error (difference-delta-what have you) will greatly impact the time taken for convergence. The HP FEM that I was referring to in my post before the last, is a much faster (linear) solve that methods used by CFD. Maybe in the future our machines and techniques will allow these CFD models to be solved faster. But I am in a differnt realm of application, I'm sure your right.

I really need to check out U-He software after after all my yakety. I've heard nothing but praise for Diva.

[exmatproton]

Energy is never created or destroyed...only changes forms.

So, what started this all was I bought ace...and I bought hive originally. Thinking I would have analog, and I would have modern virus type stuff covered. Unfortunately when I put hive next to ace ... well ace blew it up to be kind. They do not sit nicely together for me. I put hive down and wrote it off as a trance synth and an impulse buy.

So that's what started it all. After having this conversation I decided that I may have been comparing apples and oranges here. Hive may not have been what I was expecting, but maybe I was missing out on the point of it all. I mean... Urs and company have put an extreme amount of thought and education and experience into this thing. I know Urs knows what he is talking about. He and his team are very capable. So I put ace down and simply loaded hive up and tooled around with it today.

Can I say, I'm getting some very yamaha reminiscent sounds out of this lady. She is growing on me. EXM pad 3 ... Who ever you are... that is showing me the power of hive.

That would be me. And thank you for the compliment!

When I found your set of presets I found something that stopped me. It was emotional and organic and human. It surprised me. It's not that any of these presets are terribly technical or difficult. That isn't the point of hive is it? These presets suddenly made hive...a more organic instrument for me. So nice job there from my point of view...hearing the emotional attributes of a new instrument and knowing not to take them too far... but letting the instrument shine a little. That was needed for me.

I'm truly glad you like the presets! Thank you very much for the great compliment!

Hive is one of the diamonds on the market. Quick, easy to learn, light on the CPU, not that expensive/packed with nice additions. The engine is good enough for everyday use and live usage (some minor issues are still present...true). It is a lovely thing.

[Nanners]

ETE sci poly. Another good one. brings out the lower end a little without all the affects going full blast. These patches need to be taken up a few octaves to show themselves. When I started looking into the patches I see that a lot of them rely on the effects section, which are very good. I didn't really notice it until I started looking into the patches, so that's a good thing. I really love the square waves too. The interaction between the square waves and the filters can be interesting. Yeah, Hive seems to be about noticing and playing with the things done right. I get the feeling it's meant to be layered and such. There is some good stuff in here if you tilt your head and look at it from a different Light. I hate to be a nag but the orange and the blue doesn't really work for me... too orange and too blue (sorry Urs, just being honest here). I would like to see a greyed out version with dimmable white glowing parts. Even a nice sunshine yellow would work over the orange and blue imo (enough of that).


I'm getting it's a balance. Minimalism is an art and doing it right requires experience. What IS modeled here is of the utmost importance and done with intent. It gives it that "ray of sunshine" feel of early yamaha and some rolands. The compressor is a very musical one. All the effects done very well. Very clean and even when jacked don't drown the timbre. There was an intent there.

So these distortion curves are known and applied (like an impulse?) or are they iterated (numerical)? Hmmmm, maybe it doesn't matter if it sounds good... right? Now I need to apply my experience to it and see what I can work with.

[Nanners]

It just struck me... the word I would describe and apply to this kind of designer modeling. A word here that took me a minute to recognize because it's not obvious when talking about distortion and over the top detuned stabs and layered pads and such... that word is delicate. There is a sort of discrete delicate beauty hidden within her heart. She really doesn't like to be jerked around and jacked up.... she delicate like that. You have to get to her heart to hear her.

[Dasheesh]

She's the high school goth girl man. You have to get past all the make up and blue hair. There is an intelligent woman underneath.

[Nanners]

Well, I'm giving it my best go, but there are some bugs to work out it appears. I'm not sure the pulse width is even working right now. I'll give it some time and come back at a later date. I'm really trying here. I want to get the most out of this and I'm trying to be accepting of the technology and concept at work here. There is a musical tone buried deep within her that needs to be brought to the surface because it has great potential. I need more access to the heart of the engine to explore it and it's frustrating me. Sorry Urs and company. I realize the work that has gone into it. I'll come back to it at a later date. I'm sure you will get it worked out. I want to play around with those distortion models more.

Also, I think elegant is a better word than delicate, and maybe purple/violet would be a better color choice.

Sorry if this thread got off track. I'm picking back up ace! I love it.

[EvilDragon]

PW sure does work in Hive...

[Nanners]

I know you can do that trick where you assign constant dragon, but I tried to midi learn a controller knob to it to make it easier and it did nothing so, what ever, this is something i'm going to have to come back to later date.

edit: it changes the wave form but not the pulse width. It's by design so that's just frustration on my part learning a new way of doing things. Everytime I put it down I wind up coming back a few minutes later. It's just... not what I'm used to and I needed a break. I guess there's a reason there is the exclusion of things like a pulse width knob or slider... Probably to clean up the interface. I am going to have to stop posting though ... that was a bit of an outburst.

[exmatproton]

*dbl post*

[exmatproton]

I know you can do that trick where you assign constant dragon, but I tried to midi learn a controller knob to it to make it easier and it did nothing so, what ever, this is something i'm going to have to come back to later date.

edit: it changes the wave form but not the pulse width. It's by design so that's just frustration on my part learning a new way of doing things. Everytime I put it down I wind up coming back a few minutes later. It's just... not what I'm used to and I needed a break. I guess there's a reason there is the exclusion of things like a pulse width knob or slider... Probably to clean up the interface. I am going to have to stop posting though ... that was a bit of an outburst.

Here's 25 Hive patches. Using PW a lot.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

enjoy

[Nanners]

I really need to check out U-He software after after all my yakety. I've heard nothing but praise for Diva.

Can I be honest with you for a second battle cat. Diva is probably the best sounding software on the planet or that I ever heard, but ace rivals it in sound quality imo. That being said...

Here I am only a few days into learning hive, up at 5 am, drinking all night playing with Hive. Urs and his crew may have created a masterpiece of software engineering here. It's built as and for being software, and there is something very musical in how the oscillators work with the filter distortions. It harkens back to when synthesizers were full of discovery. It's as if he was trying to approach the sum of zero on a macro scale. It's a slowly growing love affair and part of an intense love affair is it's not all good. It's sometimes filled with distain for the partner, but there is always passion that pushes you forward. A true love/hate affair. It's intense because it's a relearning. I actually think you said it best as "raising the polynomial order to solve iteratively, non-linear analysis is never perfect, but then again neither is pi."

That in my imo is the most accurate description I can come up with. It's technical, and yet, never loses the emotion of elegance. It seems to have a mean side as well that I have not touched but... I just want to say to any one thinking about diving in...it's an experience so be prepared.

[Dasheesh]

Hey Urs, Man did I miss the mark on Hive! I get it now. You have the ability to build a software instrument that would rival any hardware and could exceed it in possibilities but it would take a quantum server to run it and the hardware just isn't up to it, so it's about building a better software instrument. That takes figuring out what sounds good and why it sounds good and then eliminating the waste. I really misjudged Hive, again, my apologies. I come from a hardware stance of what is "better". Hope I didn't hurt your feelings too badly by assuming it was a trance synth to appease the masses because this honey really has a nice new school rock and roll sound to it. Took me a minute to come around, I'm just picky.

I like the purple idea. A nice lush "Prince Purple". or glowing violet.

I'm going to be spreading the word with my old guy hardware friends.

[aaron aardvark]

exmatproton,
Thank you for the patches, I will try them later.

[Nanners]

Yes, thank you exmatproton. When I first dove in I just skipped the main body of presets and went strait for "undiscovered country" trying to find a hidden gem. I did find a few so I started digging around more....there is some seriously good stuff in here already. "Toy Rocket Dreams" sounds very analog modeled to my ears. I just spent the last 24 hours playing it. One of the better programming jobs I'ver heard in fact... You have some talented programmers on board with this don't you mr. Urs... something for everyone.

[Nanners]

SO I'm going to ask something pertaining to modeling here with Hive... hope it's not offensive, maybe someone can answer it. I see that the lfo's go very fast into AMing rates and I'm grateful for that. With all the classics, prophets, moogs, arps etc. you have been able to also do FMing with the oscillators. Since Hive is using basically static waves, where the cpu only has to calculate frequency, seems FM'ing would be relatively cheap on cpu.... not possible? omitted by design? Am I wrong?