tempo mapping in tracktion

[chico.co.uk]

I've watched the video now, that's a great way to do it actually, and not one I've tried before. I'll definitely be having a go with that in the near future.

I'd like it even more if there was like a way to drag the bar lines themselves into place. Maybe like a new tool, not the pencil or arrow, but something else, and when you drag a bar line it moves it relevant to the nearest tempo change before that barline (or the start of the edit), then dropped a tempo point when you let go of the barline. A bit like your option T shortcut key being done automatically. So you just go from left to right in the edit, dragging the barlines to fit, and with that tool selected, it automatically treats all audio clips as if they shouldn't stretch to fit the tempo. If that makes sense... I can visualise it, not sure I'm explaining it well though

[hexman]

For me the workflow in Tracktion is similar to that in Studio One. There might be a way to create some macros to speed it up. I created this video to show the workflow I use:

https://w-edstrom.wistia.com/medias/687engp5ar

Before T6 the timeline didn't dynamically stretch when changing BPM. The workflow is slightly improved over T5.

Hey gigazaga

I tried that (it must be different on a MAC, I had to use alt+T) but there seems to be a visual bug. When I hit the alt+T the point does NOT get drawn on the cursor, but back about 2 bars. HOWEVER when I then adjust the BPM it IS at the cursor. Kind of weird. It's putting it in the right place but I think it's drawing the point at some offset. After the bpm adjust the point is in the right place, just a temporary draw bug?

Can anyone try it and confirm???? Im on a PC Win7.

[gigazaga]

I tried that (it must be different on a MAC, I had to use alt+T) but there seems to be a visual bug. When I hit the alt+T the point does NOT get drawn on the cursor, but back about 2 bars. HOWEVER when I then adjust the BPM it IS at the cursor. Kind of weird. It's putting it in the right place but I think it's drawing the point at some offset. After the bpm adjust the point is in the right place, just a temporary draw bug?

Can anyone try it and confirm???? Im on a PC Win7.

Tracktion inserts a "Curvature" point behind the inserted tempo point half way back to the previous tempo change. That might be what you are seeing. There might also be a minor UI problem that when you initially insert a tempo change, the new point is obscured by the cursor. Or, maybe there is a refresh issue on Windows for the insert tempo action. I will test this on my Windows machine later.

[gigazaga]

Right the is something weird going on with Insert tempo change at cursor and Windows.

[hexman]

Thanks - it looks like it's a drawing bug that offsets the position of the little square tempo marking point when you initially click. Once you drag the slider (in the lower control window) to adjust the BPM it correctly draws the marking point.

So it looks (to me) that it's a least not affecting the end result, but would be good to fix the drawing bug.

BTW - I was going to request a feature to do more automated tempo mapping similar to REAPER (implemented with macros) or like SONAR (fit improvisation). Do you know if this has already been discussed or should I just add it to the T6 feature requests?

[gigazaga]

I looked at this some more and got an explanation from Dave at TSC. When you insert Tempo change events they snap to the nearest beat. If there is already a tempo change on the nearest beat, nothing happens when you insert one.

In my follow-up testing that mostly explains why the Tempo points appear to be inserted in the wrong place. For the way I do tempo mapping, I always want them on the beat anyway so it's not a problem. On the other hand it doesn't always feel like it's working right because of this. It might feel more natural if the Tempo point was just inserted at the cursor position.

[hexman]

>>I looked at this some more and got an explanation from Dave at TSC. When you insert Tempo change events they snap to the nearest beat. If there is already a tempo change on the nearest beat, nothing happens when you insert one.

It's not just that it snaps to the nearest snap resolution: the "white" dot does but the "orange" one is put somewhat randomly offset to the left. Then when you move the BPM slider it immediately jumps to the correct location in line with the "white" dot. (The white and orange dots make up the vertical line (y axis tempo) of the tempo "change" and should always be "in line" x axis time wise"). So I really think it's a draw bug. I sent them a screen capture animated gif showing the problem thru the Tracktion support email.

>>It might feel more natural if the Tempo point was just inserted at the cursor position
I *think* but cant remember that if you turn off "snap" it puts it right at the cursor - the "white" dot but not the "orange". Not sure.

[hexman]

In my follow-up testing that mostly explains why the Tempo points appear to be inserted in the wrong place.

I'd love to have the ability to record a midi track with events at the start of each measure in line with an audio (song) file. Then be able to iterate thru the events and adjust tempo (between i and i+1 events) so that the "bar lines" are "lined up" with the audio.

I think Tracktion pretty much has this since you can choose the option to adjust between two tempo events only, but it needs the ability to automate the process to step thru the midi events and run the tempo changes.

[gigazaga]

In my follow-up testing that mostly explains why the Tempo points appear to be inserted in the wrong place.

I'd love to have the ability to record a midi track with events at the start of each measure in line with an audio (song) file. Then be able to iterate thru the events and adjust tempo (between i and i+1 events) so that the "bar lines" are "lined up" with the audio.

I think Tracktion pretty much has this since you can choose the option to adjust between two tempo events only, but it needs the ability to automate the process to step thru the midi events and run the tempo changes.

Right. It certainly could be improved. I understand the idea of keying off of MIDI events and I have seen that in other DAWs.

For my workflow, it would be great if you could graphically grab bar lines and drag them where you want. Tracktion would could manage the Tempo points as necessary.

[hexman]

For my workflow, it would be great if you could graphically grab bar lines and drag them where you want. Tracktion would could manage the Tempo points as necessary.

Yes! That would be a great visual way to do it for a few corrections. It's *sorta* there with the Tempo Curve "displace curve" with the "only displace / scale the marked region" enabled - but you have to move the i/o markers etc. Not nearly as useful as your idea.

[chico.co.uk]

For my workflow, it would be great if you could graphically grab bar lines and drag them where you want. Tracktion would could manage the Tempo points as necessary.

Yes. This. Perfickt. Pretty sure I suggested something similar to Dave a while back

[hexman]

Would be another thing that Traction makes "easy and intuitive" compared to the rest of the field. I would still like the ability (maybe thru java actions) to automate it to a manual tapped tempo line.

[gigazaga]

....I would still like the ability (maybe thru java actions) to automate it to a manual tapped tempo line.

I know lots of people like that approach. Personally, I don't trust my tapping!

[hexman]

I know lots of people like that approach. Personally, I don't trust my tapping!

Heh


Yeah, it gets me close enough though. I use it to break apart songs to learn. I import an MP3, tempo map it, then figure out the markers for intro, verse, chorus. Then I can use the metronome to the 'decently' mapped audio. I can also use audio tools to slow down the passages (preserving pitch). Really good tool for learning how songs are constructed as well as being able to get the changes, riffs etc. Frankly I don't know why somebody in the DAW world has capitalized on this as a learning tool.

I know there's stuff like "Riffstation" etc but I find a DAW simpler.

[crashedthecar]

Hi
I'm trying to tempo map a clip but the midi in the project stretches with the tempo changes. Is there a way to make midi behave like you can with audio when set to no time stretching?

cheers and ta