Nice Job with the New Modulator Video Tutorial

[dmbaer]

As the subject line says ...

Even though it just covered the Normal capabilities, I actually did learn something new - I never noticed that button to make the stepper mono vs bi-polar.

But what I'm really looking forward to is the tutorial that will explain the "project on LFO" feature. I have done experiments to try to figure out how this works and what it does, but remain unenlightened.

[MeldaProduction]

There will be several other videos . 3 are already done .

As for the Project on LFO feature I'm going to disappoint you though . I think it actually could have been explained there, but I'm personally considering it an "extreme creationist's tool" . I know exactly how it works, yet it is pretty much impossible to tell what it will do in specific cases .

[dmbaer]

As for the Project on LFO feature I'm going to disappoint you though ... I'm personally considering it an "extreme creationist's tool".

OK, that’s pretty much what my take on this is as well - extreme creationists tool, that is. However, I want to go in two different directions with this. I was going to wait until the video explaining project-on-lfo, but since that’s not happening, I’ll proceed directly from my position of ignorance.

Although the project-on-lfo capability would be rarely needed as is, what would be wonderfully useful would be a project-on-lfo-depth option. In one of my MXXX presets (two of them actually) I set up something similar to what you can (presumably) do with Mutools Mutator. Taking an envelope follower sidechain signal and using it to control the depth of an LFO modulating filter cutoff. I don’t think this is all that weird or unusual … at least to fans of Mutator. In any case, I needed to set this up with two modulators, one for LFO and one for envelope follower modulating LFO depth. With a project-on-lfo-depth option, it could easily have been done with one, and done in a much more straightforward fashion. However, I will confess that I haven’t thought through the implications of using this with a modulation type that doesn’t have Depth as a control like Range, for example.

On a completely different notion, I’m wondering if there’s not a fairly easy solution to allowing multiple modulators to modulate a single target. I’m assuming that if one doesn’t enable project-on-lfo, and one sets an envelope follower to 50% LFO, 50% follower, then we get an equal accumulation of both in the resultant modulator signal level. If that’s not correct, then what follows will make little sense, but I’m assuming I’ve got the story right so far.

Now, suppose there was a new tab in the modulator called “adjustment”. It contains a single 0 to 100% control, the value of which accumulates into the final modulator signal as an envelope follow would merge with the LFO. Make that an eligible modulation target. I think we’ve got a not-too-difficult way to apply multiple modulators to a single target.

Sorry for the long-windedness. Hopefully I’ve explained myself clearly enough.

[MeldaProduction]

Ok, so:

"project on lfo depth" - I'm not really sure what you mean. It can actually be the project onto LFO shape, or maybe it is not, I have no idea from your description .

"adjustment" - I'm not really sure how that would work really. Anyway there are bigger problems with it, more like synchronization between mods etc. All in all, the modulators have absolute units, so it principially doesn't make sense to have multiple of them controlling the same parameter. Also if you have thousands of parameters, you can't just sum them in some array and then check everything every few samples, it would take way too much CPU. That's the cost of having too much versatility...

[jc_vt]

Another quick appreciation for this video and those to follow. Melda products are deep and any help in mastering them is welcomed!

[dmbaer]

Ok, so:
"adjustment" - I'm not really sure how that would work really.

How does using a 50%/50% combination of LFO and env. follower (with no project-on-lfo enabled) work now? The two sources of influence (LFO and follower) are simply summed (or maybe averaged), are they not? I was hoping for a better explanation of how this works because I'm not exactly certain this is what is actually happening. It's difficult to set up a test, but this is what appears to be the resultant behavior - again, no project-on-lfo option involved at all. In any case, I've tried my best to figure out what's going on under the covers based on visual examination of the moving graph in the modulator.

The LFO/follower scenario offers the same challenges you've cited for an "adjustment" value: different units for the two parties contributing to the resultant modulation signal level. An "adjustment" contributor would work no differently than the follower does now. Hell, you wouldn't even have to provide a project-on-lfo feature for it.

Is that any clearer?

[MeldaProduction]

Well, sadly it's not that simple. Imagine like several black box units (modulators), which can do some very complex functionality and based on that they adjust some parameters. What you want would need cooperation of multiple modulators in some way that actually seems quite hard to imagine to me .
The project on lfo, lfo mix and stuff all works in 0..1 (0% to 100% if you want) and it simply interpolates between mutliple sources. But then the mod just changes the target parameters based on units, transformation... It's actually quite complex...

[dmbaer]

The project on lfo, lfo mix and stuff all works in 0..1 (0% to 100% if you want) and it simply interpolates between mutliple sources.

And that's *all* I'm suggesting. Whether the modulator output is influenced (or augmented) by an envelope follower, an envelope or some other arbitrary 0..1 source, if it works for one it should work for any. Throw in one more of these 0..1 contributors but let the preset developer have some say as to how it's value is determined.

Obviously, I do not have knowledge of the complexities under the covers, so I certainly don't mean to imply you don't know what you're talking about. I will let this to now (reluctantly ) and you need not feel obliged to reply. But if you're in the shower one day in the future and have an "AHA!" moment regarding this, you can thank me at that time.

[MeldaProduction]

Hehe ok I'll think about it in a shower . In a few minutes...

[dmbaer]

Just watched video number two in this series. Really excellent!

I particularly appreciated the demonstration of how to use the mapping graphic windows (don't recall the right name for these things) to get multiple behaviors from a single modulator. I will need to watch another time or two to really get these concepts to sink in. But this video has opened up all kinds of possibilities I didn't realize existed.

Nice job!

[MeldaProduction]

Great!!! More to come .

[Touch The Universe]

videos?

[MeldaProduction]

Yeah!

[Touch The Universe]

Great Stuff

[dmbaer]

And video number 3 - absolutely another winner! The presentation of how to "tune" the follower was superb. Showing how to use the lower and upper level limits was crystal clear.

Keep 'em coming, by all means.

Do you have designs on also doing one or more tutorials about MultiParameters?