KVR Audio

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:34 am

[DELETED]

david.beholder · Post by **david.beholder** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:12 am

EvilDragon wrote:
TheoM wrote:interesting.. are there any plugins then that simply don't have aliasing?
Additive synthesis shouldn't have aliasing if done well.

Coorect statement is: additive synthesis as long as it has constant note pitch.

But actually quite a few of modern synths has aliasing around noisefloor level i.e. it's unnoticeable.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:17 am

A=Diva
B=OB8

Almost indistinguishable to my ears.

@Ltz - what's your guess? You didn't say.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:21 am

A universal guide to analogue vs. digital emulation tests:

A) make a comparison of basic sounds: raw oscillators, filter sweeps, envelope behaviour. Nobody can tell which is which. People say that the comparison is not relevant because the difference shows itself at more complex patches

B) make a comparison of "real world sounds": leads, pads, basses. Nobody can tell which is which. People say that the comparison is not relevant because the difference shows itself when the sounds are put together into a track.

C) make a comparison of arrangements having all basic elements put together. Nobody can tell which is which. People say that the comparison is not relevant because the difference shows itself at extreme settings

D) make a comparison of "extreme sounds": brutal resonance, filter selfoscillation, extreme filter FM. Nobody can tell which is which. People say that the comparison is not relevant because nobody uses such sounds in music, you must go down to something basic

E) Go to point A

Z1202 · Post by **Z1202** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:26 am

Synthetic Wav wrote:
analoguesamples909 wrote:
Z1202 wrote: Aside from the recongnizable signature bread-and-butter sounds, can anyone explain the musical importance of being an exact emulation?
the musical importance is that many people find analogue synthesis and processing more musical.

it come down to only one thing, digital artifacts..once we can use crazy sampling rate digital will smoke everything analog from my little understanding, aliasing and tricks to reduce aliasing is what make the difference in sound it seems or at least a big part of it.

At the present state of the technology the digital artifacts are hardly the biggest part of the difference in sound. When you model analog hardware you are using models, which are simplifications of what's going on. Because if you don't, you'll get into an analysis and computational nightmare. Thus, the emulation is missing some analog artifacts. Some maybe completely unimportant, some unimportant only in bread-and-butter cases, some get important to create certain specific sounds etc. Aciddose demonstrated some of such artifacts in a parallel thread. It is those analog, rather than digital artifacts which are at the moment IMHO the biggest difference between software and analog.

Edit: a more specific example of such artifact, by now known to the DSP engineers (I believe that the recent high-quality Moog filter emulations support that one) is the dynamic cutoff reduction at high signal levels (and no, this artifact is not the input signal leakage into the cutoff, it's the effect of the nonlinearities in the signal path).

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:34 am

On the subject of extreme analog sounds - let's hear Diva (or any VA) do this:

Waldorf Pulse2
Waldorf Pulse2 extra

(yes, it's a trick!)

Z1202 · Post by **Z1202** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:45 am

hakey wrote:On the subject of extreme analog sounds - let's hear Diva (or any VA) do this:

We have been told that we are not allowed to compare Diva to Monark because they are modelling two Minimoogs with two different serial numbers. I guess comparing to Pulse 2 is therefore completely out of the question

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:22 am

Very amusing thread. Just read the first pages, of people "clearly" describing attributes that are totally contradictory from each other. There's no need to even listen to the videos to draw the obvious conclusion.

The sound is a bit of a red herring. The true differences between hardware and good soft synths are a) cost; b) size / weight; c) versatility; d) convenience and e) how tactile they are. Always fun watching people confidently claim totally different things from each other when it comes to sound though.

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:33 am

I guess A is OB8 .. To my ears the difference is not so subtle actually.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:37 am

hakey wrote:On the subject of extreme analog sounds - let's hear Diva (or any VA) do this:

Hey Hakey
Would be more fun if you would emulate some of the examples in the OP with Synth 1 just like you emulated Analog Solutions Telemark in my long forgotten thread

Still got your patch BTW. Helluva fun we had these days.

Ph-J · Post by **Ph-J** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:41 am

I'd say the same, A being HW.
I wonder if the order of presentation has any influence: A being the first, we expect B to match it, so when we hear some differences we attribute more 'authenticity' to A...

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:46 am

yes order of presentation can influence the choice definetly

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:33 am

Tsk tsk tsk...
So many golden eared people here and looks like no one noticed this.
2 possibilities.
1. The OP recorded some analog noise and pasted this on Diva.
2. The OP recorded Diva through the same outboard gear as the Oberheim.
Turn up the volume to hear the noise between notes.

As for the test, i don't have golden ears so i don't even try to guess by ears.
When i first listened i heard A and B as VERY close, but not the same, couldn't tell which is which anyway.
Just by "gut feeling" i picked A as Oberheim, because it had slightly more of that Oberheim signature "trumpetey" (narrower frequency range/more mid frequencies) sound.
Then i loaded the second clip in REAPER and compared waves by eye, did the same thing many times before with Diva, so i know what oscillator shapes it has.
B is Diva.
And from the final user, music listener point of view they are equaly fun to listen to.
And IMHO this is what REALLY matters.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:43 am

Who needs DIVA when you can have a Jupiter 8 with midi in for only 9500$ on Ebay? Threads like this are for poor-asses who cannot affort real synths.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:44 am

Also about the analog noise.
From the spike at 15.6Khz i guess that you have some CRT screen near your audio gear.
Turn it off while recording.

Diva vs Analogue - a real world test