Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

[Urs]

What is your guess Urs? LOL

Honestly, no idea... I tried to figure out what it is that people mean when they describe the differences, but while there are differences, obviously, I'm not sure I'd attribute them similarly. I'll be happy either way

[Synthetic Wav]

i could do a test bazille + sdrr vs analog too.. with audio rate modulation all other the place bazille can sound digital but sometimes it really remind me analog and with sdrr on top to give that little extra for the depth and more lively feeling i m sure it can give really good result for some modern sounding analog madness

[EnGee]

Sorry, it is simple. If you can't measure it, then how would you be able to compare it?

You measure the responses, as I said. If enough people can tell which is which, enough so that the result can't be chance, you know that there is a difference that people can perceive.

Do you mean you base your test on poll? on random sample in KVR? right?

Perception and telepathy can't be measured!

So what do you imagine this is full of:

http://da.velux.com/ar-LB/PublishingIma ... 2_w280.jpg

So, you based your test on the methods in this book?
Ok, show me your research then. How did you measure every one's perception? every one that participated in this vote/poll/test or advertisement?

EnGee, if you read my earlier post I said that kvr would not the best place. But yes, plenty of scientific research is based on polls. And for probably the third time in this case you would measure perception by seeing if enough people can accurately tell which is which.
As for "showing you my research" I don't know what you're talking about, if you want to know about perceptual science I suggest you just do some googling and you will see that it does indeed exist.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=perceptual+science
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=perceptual+science+journal

Oh, I got it! Sorry. So you mean the whole test is about our reaction or perception to the test. It is not about the test itself.
So, to put it in a better words, you (or the OP) are interested in People's opinion/reaction/perception about the two synths or the two examples, and depending on that, you conclude that Diva is similar or whatever.

Yes, Ok, I misunderstood for a math and physics explanations, like graphs ..etc.

[Ogopogo]

Yep, I guess I didn't make that clear, sorry.

[Ogopogo]

Analogue and incarnate, thanks for the response, but do you really need to explicitly declare the null hypothesis, or could no difference 50/50 just serve as the null hypothesis. I mean if you get a much higher number of people identifying the synths correctly than chance would allow, it would seem that hypothesis or no, you have proved that the synths are distinguishable.

[EnGee]

Ok, great! I'm still waiting the result

I prefer A, but actually when i heard the last examples I begin to like B.

Anyway, as an artist, my opinion is Diva still from the best soft synths out there, and those examples are showing it. If it is A or B, still it is a winner

Only if I find a way to make it consumes 5% or 10% of my CPU

[IncarnateX]

Analogue and incarnate, thanks for the response, but do you really need to explicitly declare the null hypothesis, or could no difference 50/50 just serve as the null hypothesis. I mean if you get a much higher number of people identifying the synths correctly than chance would allow, it would seem that hypothesis or no, you have proved that the synths are distinguishable.

No difference equal chance equal 50/50 equal the null hypothesis. In other words your 50/50 IS the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis is a statistical concept and you do not need to declare it, since it will always state that any given results of a test is based on chance. To prove something statistically, you have to beat it, but fortunately we have experts and programs to perform such kind of calculations.

[Ogopogo]

No difference equal chance equal 50/50 equal the null hypothesis. In other words your 50/50 IS the null hypothesis.

Right, that's what I thought, so I was wondering why you guys were saying this:

The reason why this test could not be called 'scientific' is because I have not provided my hypothesis

since we do not know what hypothesis is tested and even less about the results (which one is DIVA) we do not have much to judge any "validity" of the test from.

[SWAN808]

No difference equal chance equal 50/50 equal the null hypothesis. In other words your 50/50 IS the null hypothesis.

Right, that's what I thought, so I was wondering why you guys were saying this:

The reason why this test could not be called 'scientific' is because I have not provided my hypothesis

since we do not know what hypothesis is tested and even less about the results (which one is DIVA) we do not have much to judge any "validity" of the test from.

I dont think this test needs a hypothesis - I didnt explicitly state one because IMO its for discussion and not science.

However in reality its fairly obvious if you had to make a hypothesis it would either be 'people on KVR can tell the difference between Diva and OB8 in specific examples' or 'people on KVR cannot tell the difference between Diva and OB8 in specific examples'.

However I see no reason to load the test with either expectation...

[IncarnateX]

No difference equal chance equal 50/50 equal the null hypothesis. In other words your 50/50 IS the null hypothesis.

Right, that's what I thought, so I was wondering why you guys were saying this:

The reason why this test could not be called 'scientific' is because I have not provided my hypothesis

since we do not know what hypothesis is tested and even less about the results (which one is DIVA) we do not have much to judge any "validity" of the test from.

There is no contradiction here. To judge the validity of a test you need to know what it is aimed at testing and for this purpose you need a main hypothesis. To judge the validity of your main hypothesis the results have to reject the null hypothesis. The Null hypothesis is the opposite of your main hypothesis, it is the enemy you have to defeat (statistically)

[IncarnateX]

No difference equal chance equal 50/50 equal the null hypothesis. In other words your 50/50 IS the null hypothesis.

Right, that's what I thought, so I was wondering why you guys were saying this:

The reason why this test could not be called 'scientific' is because I have not provided my hypothesis

since we do not know what hypothesis is tested and even less about the results (which one is DIVA) we do not have much to judge any "validity" of the test from.

I dont think this test needs a hypothesis - I didnt explicitly state one because IMO its for discussion and not science.

However in reality its fairly obvious if you had to make a hypothesis it would either be 'people on KVR can tell the difference between Diva and OB8 in specific examples' or 'people on KVR cannot tell the difference between Diva and OB8 in specific examples'.

However I see no reason to load the test with either expectation...

I know, I know, I know and agree. This issue started because Aciddose was bitching about it as a scientific test and I tried to explain why this was not put forward as such in the first place. I'm your friend here

[Ogopogo]

There is no contradiction here. To judge the validity of a test you need to know what it is aimed at testing and for this purpose you need a main hypothesis. To judge the validity of your main hypothesis the results have to reject the null hypothesis. The Null hypothesis is the opposite of your main hypothesis, it is the enemy you have to defeat (statistically)

Ok, but as analogue said there are only really two possible hypothesis so that's not really an issue.

So after touching on all these issues I think my original point stands, there's nothing to really disqualify this as a scientific test assuming that there are enough responses. It's certainly not the best test one could design but it's not just subjective.

[nasenbluten]

Test 3 gives it away. Hardware is B.

[kvaca]

What is your guess aciddose?

My best guess is that your methods here are so far from scientific that it makes me laugh.

What are you attempting to prove? What this "test" proves is that given two entirely random bits of data, it isn't possible to accurately identify one or the other.

It's random chance.

NO, its not a random choice at all!
in fact its nice and easy test for everybody...at least for people with undamaged hearing is easy to tell the difference...

[cocoazenith]

Test 3 gives it away. Hardware is B.

is there a test 3? i only listened to 2 tests...