Any plans to do a True Peak limiter?

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Hey folks, so:

- Upsampling DOES introduce latency (we also have zero-latency mode, but that's not linearphase).

- Upsampling the whole thing is most likely better idea - the problem is with filtering. Upsampling is basically a very very steep accurate filter, which requires access to many samples in a row, so processing just a few samples wouldn't really give you any improvement in CPU performance, and would lead to unstable results in between of critical areas.

- My test was with 4x MDynamicsLimiter. Anyway as I said, Maxwell ended up with lots of intersample peaks, I don't blame it, it's impossible to remove it completely without analytic approach (which would suffer from other consequences).

- Q1 - How can be a difference between R128Gain and MLoudnessAnalyzer? Because none of these plugins actually measure true true peaks (2x true is intentional :D ). Please check my original long post :D.

- Q2 - Again check my post. Anyway you upsample audio, perform limiting, downsample it back - the downsampling could raise new peaks (not only true ones), so another clipping section is necessary "just in case". And there you create another set of potential true peaks... If you do that again, same situation :D...

- Q3 - CPU consumption would be for a very long conversation. But the latency is basically cause by the filter. Usually the better the filter, the more latency (and CPU) it requires...
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Hm, okay, but why does R128Gain analyze the audio with the exactly True Peaks, which were set up in Maxwell? R128Gain analyze the rendered WAVE file - so it's not inside the sequencer.


Edit: And sorry, if I may be exhausting in this topic. :?
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / Reaper

Tagirijus.de

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They may use the same filters, hard to say, didn't try R128Gain really.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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(I'm kind of glad that I make this question because a cool debate is going on here :party: )

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distante wrote:(I'm kind of glad that I make this question because a cool debate is going on here :party: )
Hehe the only problem is we are not going to solve anything :D. Because the "important" guys already made the (weird imho) decision :D.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Well in science isn't not always about being right or solve the hole problem, but to know and discover things 8)

In my little knowledge, I understand True Peaks or Inter Sample Peaks as the peaks that will generated physically between two samples in the DAC due to the interpolation of the process.

This is the best (and easy) image I have found about it (from cakewalk's webpage)
Image

Now, there are several DAC that can detect and limit them, but I think the most of the consumer user devices (ie: smartphones, TVs, little radios) can't do it. That's why prevent them before it reaches the consumer is a requirement for video stuff and streamings things like Spotify, Deezer, iTunes, etc (again IMHO :phones: )

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That's pretty close. But the thing is, no D/A converter does that exactly. They somehow oversample to get to this shape, but they can never really reach it. So in general this "true peak" thingy is about somehow guessing what a D/A will do based on the theoretically ideal output. It gets even more complicated because every D/A implements a different filtering for the upsampling and it's unlikely they could get anywhere close to the quality of the upsampling filters we can implement in software, so ...
Just don't drive it to much, make some headroom... the fact that something fullfils R128's definition doesn't make the problem go away, not even close... Good thing is that's not a big problem at all. And with lowend devices e.g. iphones, it doesn't really matter at all...there will be much bigger audio degradations than this rather minor thing.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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MeldaProduction wrote:Good thing is that's not a big problem at all. And with lowend devices e.g. iphones, it doesn't really matter at all...there will be much bigger audio degradations than this rather minor thing.
True that. Still one gets in between this recommendations when a client ask for it. :scared:

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Yes, sadly... But still, some upsampling plus ceiling and you'll be ok.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Some offtopic, if you allow me: is it just me or is the main idea from the R128 a good thing? Going against the loudness war? Moreover it is always nice for me to mix maybe movies etc. so that things in the foreground are at 0 LU and other stuff louder or lower.

... I have to confess that I do not understand why the INT loudness has to be -23 LUFS though, since there can be situations in which (depending on the project) more loudness or more quiet parts are nedded, which would be lowered or boosted up again to fullfill the INT - even if the loud parts had to be loud or the quiet had to be quiet ... :)
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / Reaper

Tagirijus.de

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Well, it may be a nice sideeffect indeed :D. Though, it seems to me like it created a whole wave of unnecessary tools people are forced to use just to support some pretty primitive standard... But they created it for broadcast anyway, so there might be a reason. The utilization in music is a big fail imho.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Well, I really like to mix via the LU meter for music as well. Of course I do not always stick to the EBU R128 for music (but I still like to mix and master as low as possible and only as loud as really needed). But again: it is a very nice measuring tool, imho. For my radio play projects the mixing with this "technique" is also very great. But in the end it's right what you already wrote somewhere here in the forum: the ears are the best measuring tool in the end, of course! ;)
System: Win 10 64 bit / i9 9900K (8x 3.6 GHz) / 16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM / 1TB M.2 SSD + 2x 500 GB SSD / RME Babyface / Reaper

Tagirijus.de

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Yep, it's better than nothing ;).
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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