Latest Builds (revision 3819) of nearly every u-he plugin
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- KVRian
- 1216 posts since 6 Jul, 2005
No problems so far (love the crisp look of ACE/Diva at larger sizes) but I did want to ask if the 'unit' suffix parameter issue for VSTs (appears in Ableton Live and I believe Reaper as well) is going to be fixed for the final release?
See:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t#p5700970
(I also asked about it a while after that but cannot find the thread).
Sorry to keep badgering about this one!
See:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t#p5700970
(I also asked about it a while after that but cannot find the thread).
Sorry to keep badgering about this one!
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- Banned
- 511 posts since 5 Jul, 2014
YEEESSSS. That is absolutely awesome. Uhbik never looked bad to me, but I'd believe a redesign could look awesome. Zebra 2 getting a new skin is awesome awesome awesome. The default GUI is really quite weak (must be honest thereUrs wrote: A new skin for Zebra2 is in the works but it isn't ready yet. Also a gorgeous redesign for Uhbik .... Our UI artist is sweating blood and tears over this. We've even outsourced some work but still everything takes some time.
) and I'm not too into Zebra Redux even if it is very nice.I don't suppose I could ask for a sneak peak screenshot of it? Too early? Uhbik, perhaps?
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- Banned
- 511 posts since 5 Jul, 2014
Will this decrease GUI draw time? Always been pretty choppy for me in comparison to many other soft synths.Urs wrote:No, because we've optimized a lot of the drawing code on windows. We might one day bite the bullet and render on the GPU instead.zvenx wrote:it doesn't happen on my mac for the record.
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- Banned
- 3889 posts since 3 Feb, 2010
Is it only to me Diva GUI draw time is much slower then it was on V1.3?
Actually now it even crashed my FL Studio while opening.
By the way Urs, from reading your explaination about buffers, i tried to reduce the buffer size to the lowest of 32 samples/1 ms on my audio interface's settings (Saffire Pro 24) from 256 samples/6 ms and there is an audible difference, Hive sounds a bit more clear. As from your replay this is a behaviour i should expect?
Actually now it even crashed my FL Studio while opening.
By the way Urs, from reading your explaination about buffers, i tried to reduce the buffer size to the lowest of 32 samples/1 ms on my audio interface's settings (Saffire Pro 24) from 256 samples/6 ms and there is an audible difference, Hive sounds a bit more clear. As from your replay this is a behaviour i should expect?
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- Banned
- 511 posts since 5 Jul, 2014
Oh man I hope this isn't the case. I'd give it a good test if I didn't have the release versions in songs that I don't want to risk inputting a beta into right now (stable or no).themachinelt wrote:Is it only to me Diva GUI draw time is much slower then it was on V1.3?
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- u-he
- 30207 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Well, after 10 years of using "unit" and people mostly coping well, I thought we should concentrate on essential fixes (bugs, crashes, unexpected behavior, cpu speed, host support, file permissions)taoyoyo wrote:No problems so far (love the crisp look of ACE/Diva at larger sizes) but I did want to ask if the 'unit' suffix parameter issue for VSTs (appears in Ableton Live and I believe Reaper as well) is going to be fixed for the final release?
See:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t#p5700970
(I also asked about it a while after that but cannot find the thread).
Sorry to keep badgering about this one!
Things is, a fix for this will cost one developer easily two weeks. Hundreds of files have to be inspected for parameter structures and appropriate unit labels need to be found. I'm furthermore afraid in the majority of cases there is nothing to truely set it to, other than, say, "percent". I'd reckon that only about 10% of our parameters are "dB", "semitones" or "Hertz".
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- u-he
- 30207 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
GUI drawing should have become considerably faster on Windows. I would not expect a slow down at all.KingTuck wrote:Oh man I hope this isn't the case. I'd give it a good test if I didn't have the release versions in songs that I don't want to risk inputting a beta into right now (stable or no).themachinelt wrote:Is it only to me Diva GUI draw time is much slower then it was on V1.3?
GUI opening has been reported to be slower, but we'll look into this.
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- u-he
- 30207 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
I would run Hive on a minimum of 64 samples. 32 samples may well be 20% or so more CPU.themachinelt wrote:Is it only to me Diva GUI draw time is much slower then it was on V1.3?
Actually now it even crashed my FL Studio while opening.
By the way Urs, from reading your explaination about buffers, i tried to reduce the buffer size to the lowest of 32 samples/1 ms on my audio interface's settings (Saffire Pro 24) from 256 samples/6 ms and there is an audible difference, Hive sounds a bit more clear. As from your replay this is a behaviour i should expect?
As I said, what's affected is only audio rate modulations of say, 100Hz+, which isn't want Hive is meant to be for. Other than that, I can't see how Hive would sound any different.
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- u-he
- 30207 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Well, I'm quite certain that we have an extremely fast drawing and efficient update code for a native software renderer (which is what I guess 99% of VSTs use). I've done performance measurements during recent improvements and I've got drawing of knobs and stuff down to about 80% of what it was before. This should be a considerable improvement, for sure, even with the larger graphics added to Diva and ACE.KingTuck wrote:Will this decrease GUI draw time? Always been pretty choppy for me in comparison to many other soft synths.Urs wrote:No, because we've optimized a lot of the drawing code on windows. We might one day bite the bullet and render on the GPU instead.zvenx wrote:it doesn't happen on my mac for the record.
However, we have UI features that may take a toll: Overlapping controls, antialiased vector drawing, alpha blending, scaling, font rendering, scrolling, cables and other dynamic overlays. If you compare that to a plug-in with text burnt into a single background image, displays with bitmap fonts, a 100 frames animation shared by all knobs and maybe a bunch of LEDs, yep, that uses considerably less CPU. But we also can't do our plug-ins that way. Likewise, a plug-in that renders with OpenGL (e.g. CableGuys) uses less CPU.
So, OpenGL and thus rendering on the GPU may improve things on Windows but it's also a pretty ambitious idea. OpenGL support is a modern nightmare and probably a full time task for a single developer for a long time. it's an idea which is on out "let's think about it" list of things that we might get into after this update, maybe in a year or two.
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- Banned
- 3889 posts since 3 Feb, 2010
Sorry forgot to mention that i was testing on patch that uses high rate audio modulation. Since i mostly make hardstyle music and screetching sounds do require fast modulation (pitch to LFO mostly) to sound a bit more agressive.Urs wrote:I would run Hive on a minimum of 64 samples. 32 samples may well be 20% or so more CPU.themachinelt wrote:Is it only to me Diva GUI draw time is much slower then it was on V1.3?
Actually now it even crashed my FL Studio while opening.
By the way Urs, from reading your explaination about buffers, i tried to reduce the buffer size to the lowest of 32 samples/1 ms on my audio interface's settings (Saffire Pro 24) from 256 samples/6 ms and there is an audible difference, Hive sounds a bit more clear. As from your replay this is a behaviour i should expect?
As I said, what's affected is only audio rate modulations of say, 100Hz+, which isn't want Hive is meant to be for. Other than that, I can't see how Hive would sound any different.
Thanks for the tip!
Its great to see there will be redesigned Zebra 2 Skin, cant wait to see it!
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- KVRian
- 1374 posts since 30 Mar, 2011
I really must say that it is hard to find something to moan about your synths, but what I always observed was the slightly slow loading times, even working with an SSD.Urs wrote:GUI drawing should have become considerably faster on Windows. I would not expect a slow down at all.KingTuck wrote:Oh man I hope this isn't the case. I'd give it a good test if I didn't have the release versions in songs that I don't want to risk inputting a beta into right now (stable or no).themachinelt wrote:Is it only to me Diva GUI draw time is much slower then it was on V1.3?
GUI opening has been reported to be slower, but we'll look into this.
I know it's really nit picking, but I always aks myself why some VSTs load extremly fast (Sylenth for instance is loading instantly, while others take almost 5-10 seconds (Massive, or even slower: Kontakt)). If you are 'in the flow', such small things can be a bit annoying (same goes for hard disks which have to wake up after some idle time when you want to grab a sample).
Other than that I'm really looking forward to the new Uhbiks (though they seem completely ok skin-wise) and the new Zebra2 skin.
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- KVRian
- 1374 posts since 30 Mar, 2011
Not an expert at all here, but I remember that Replika 'disaster' Native Instruments put upon their users when going for GUI rendering innovation. THis thing still does not work on my machine, and I already gave up upon a fix (it's not my job to test their experiments..)Urs wrote: So, OpenGL and thus rendering on the GPU may improve things on Windows but it's also a pretty ambitious idea. OpenGL support is a modern nightmare and probably a full time task for a single developer for a long time. it's an idea which is on out "let's think about it" list of things that we might get into after this update, maybe in a year or two.
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- u-he
- 30207 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
We're doing our best to keep it fast. The Sylenth1's UI is exactly what I meant before: No dramatic resources required, but also not quite the features of a modern plug-in UI. No resize, no built-in skin support, no patch browser, tiny knobs and not really much going on - it does have anti-aliased text in its displays though. In comparison, Diva has probably 20 times the amount of resources to load and a ton more features (parameter locking, patch browsers, oscilloscope, preset drag'n'drop), but I doubt she uses 20 times longer to load or draw. That said, it's quite natural that older plug-ins load faster. Back then one could get away with minimal UIs2ZrgE wrote:I know it's really nit picking, but I always aks myself why some VSTs load extremly fast (Sylenth for instance is loading instantly, while others take almost 5-10 seconds (Massive, or even slower: Kontakt)). If you are 'in the flow', such small things can be a bit annoying (same goes for hard disks which have to wake up after some idle time when you want to grab a sample).
Nevertheless, reports about slower loading times are noted and I hope we can speed it up before release.
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- u-he
- 30207 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Yes. This is why we prioritise "safe" improvements for this update.2ZrgE wrote:Not an expert at all here, but I remember that Replika 'disaster' Native Instruments put upon their users when going for GUI rendering innovation. THis thing still does not work on my machine, and I already gave up upon a fix (it's not my job to test their experiments..)Urs wrote: So, OpenGL and thus rendering on the GPU may improve things on Windows but it's also a pretty ambitious idea. OpenGL support is a modern nightmare and probably a full time task for a single developer for a long time. it's an idea which is on out "let's think about it" list of things that we might get into after this update, maybe in a year or two.
This update will need to last for a while because we're going to move on with a few things and that might include new compilers, more modern OS features, maybe OpenGL, the whole caboodle. We didn't do anything like this for this update for the very reason that it needs to function for everyone straight away. It'll probably also be the last update to support MacOS X 10.5, maybe the last to support 10.6.