KVR Audio

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:07 pm

trimph1 wrote:
zvenx wrote:
analoguesamples909 wrote:...............
It is interesting that Diva performs well, people are looking for bias to explain why it was chosen as preferable. ........
+1
rsp
Besides Omnisphere this synth has it's critics, haters, jealous people, conspiracy theorists and complainers who, of course, are never biased.

Never!

Synthetic Wav · Post by **Synthetic Wav** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:15 pm

some can pay a lot more for a lot less difference than in this test when buying ad/da converters for example..in the end it all depends your needs , personal preference and if the difference worth it for you , i could clearly see some guys buying the hardware after these test if they enjoy more B , cause A seems not a replacement there and vice and versa .

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:24 pm

analoguesamples909 wrote:I am saying that you cannot claim in any sort of robust way that you did get it right through your own skill/knowledge. In order to do that you need to do the 10 rounds of ABX testing as described - and get 9 out of 10 correct.

Exactly. Well stated. And that is that. Rest is speculation.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:50 pm

Psychiatrist kitteh thinks this thread is a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect and the practical application of logical fallacies and more than a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:15 pm

And for the record. Even the sum of responses in this test cannot be used for anything valid at a 95% confidence level unless you address a very small (and insignificant) population. There might be some tendencies in this test but none that cannot be explained by chance or bias (if many say A in the beginning, the chance that other will say A accumulates during test session).

Here calculate it with this:

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

So what is our population? Unlimited? 10.000 synth users or more/less? 800 users or more/less? 40 KVR members?

Try this: 95% confidence level. Confidence interval 5 (Margin of error) and population unlimited (blank)
Sample size needed: 384 subjects.

Then try this: 95% confidence level. Confidence interval 5 and population 10.000:
Sample size needed: 370 subjects.

Then this: 95% confidence level. Confidence interval 5 and population 800:
Sample size needed: 260 subjects.

Then this: 95% confidence level. Confidence interval 5 and population 40:
Sample size needed: 36 subjects.

If you continue to decrease the size of your target population, you will Sooner or later reach something valid in this test at a 95% level but you cannot generalize from the results beyond the size of population chosen, so relative to the "true" population, e.g. all synth players in the world, all DIVA user or whatever, your results will become of less and less value. You can also widen the confidence interval (margin of error) to reach a comfidence level more easily but then it is at the expense of precision.

Live Transmission · Post by **Live Transmission** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:25 pm

Maybe it's some groovy kind of religion

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:31 pm

Lotuzia wrote: I've never said such things as you described (like you were biased or similar ).

And I had nearly 100% confidence with my -right- vote. Because I have ears. And references. And this can be seen especially on GS. Believe it, or not, I just dont care. ( In case you should think you made a test so good that no one in the world could guess right except by chance, wich shows well your own level of confidence, or self satisfaction, is stratospheric and is far far beyond the 3000% bar )

Now you could think that you're engaged into a fight with me, but this is an error. I'm just the mirror of your possible failures here. Your commercial page is all about you gloryfying yourself with the results of your test, but now the results of the same test would not work just for those who deciphered the truth. Seriously ....

Then, do I claim for authority ? You're the only one here trying to prove something, right ?. Fight alone, my friend, it would not be fair for a star like you to debate with the confused humble me.

Ltz the reason why I have taken a firm line with you is because from the moment I posted this test I have noticed you have taken an unduly critical stance, and I know you are also a preset designer and ex associate of Xils.

Its very interesting you keep suggesting I regard myself as some sort of star glorifying myself. It perhaps says something about your own tendencies or jealousy. I am merely making a test (that I hope people enjoy) and yes defending my choices dependent on the basis of the criticism. Im not sure what basis this has made me a 'star' lol. But yes when you make a product alongside - of course the idea is to sell it - and I state a FACT on my website. Why not? Do you do good business by avoiding stating complimentary facts about your preset packs? There is humble and there is stupid.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:37 pm

IncarnateX wrote:And for the record. Even the sum of responses in this test cannot be used for anything valid at a 95% confidence level unless you address a very small (and insignificant) population. There might be some tendencies in this test but none that cannot be explained by chance or bias (if many say A in the beginning, the chance that other will say A accumulates during test session).

Exactly... each guess needs to be free of knowing the guesses of others... otherwise they will influence the choice.

Well, to me it seems so obvious that no definitive conclusions can be drawn from such simple comparisons. Add in that nobody has claimed such, and it seems peculiar that so much heated focus has gone there. For me, I simply find these guess the synth comparisons fun.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:44 pm

analoguesamples909 wrote:
Ltz the reason why I have taken a firm line with you is because from the moment I posted this test I have noticed you have taken an unduly critical stance, and I know you are also a preset designer and ex associate of Xils.

Its very interesting you keep suggesting I regard myself as some sort of star glorifying myself. It perhaps says something about your own tendencies or jealousy. I am merely making a test (that I hope people enjoy) and yes defending my choices dependent on the basis of the criticism. Im not sure what basis this has made me a 'star' lol. But yes when you make a product alongside - of course the idea is to sell it - and I state a FACT on my website. Why not? Do you do good business by avoiding stating complimentary facts about your preset packs? There is humble and there is stupid.

I also found his attitude towards you in this thread aggressive and attacking.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:46 pm

pdxindy wrote: For me, I simply find these guess the synth comparisons fun.

Glad to hear it! If you look in the preset demo video that I own and enjoy Musings

....I deleted most other Diva presets!

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:51 pm

analoguesamples909 wrote:I have noticed you have taken an unduly critical stance, and I know you are also a preset designer and ex associate of Xils.

Don't take it personal, he's been criticizing u-he stuff around here for years. It's funny though even though he no longer says he works for Xils, he still seems to push it in threads. Quite a bit actually. And for some reason he often posts videos to their youtube marketing blurbs:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4#p6226724
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6#p6220066
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p6219708
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p6217288
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p6212803
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1#p6197811
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p6186458
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 7#p6185757
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2#p6182182

If you look carefully you'll see he never, ever mentions a u-he product as doing well. It's almost like, maybe, he has a bias against them. And yet he seems to always pop up on u-he threads with suggestions for alternatives or critiques of something or other.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:56 pm

In fairness, I think I have an Ace bank that he did.
rsp

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:59 pm

zvenx wrote:In fairness, I think I have an Ace bank that he did.
rsp

Yep, and if I recall he created it before joining with Xils (it was posted to his site in 2010). Since then I never seem to see him push either ACE or the bank he created for it. And he certainly hasn't made any other banks for u-he products. My jaw would drop if he did.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:08 pm

analoguesamples909 wrote:
Lotuzia wrote: Bla bla

And I had nearly 100% confidence with my -right- vote. Because I have ears. And references. And this can be seen especially on GS. Believe it, or not, I just dont care. .......

...........

Then, do I claim for authority ? You're the only one here trying to prove something, right ?. Fight alone, my friend, it would not be fair for a star like you to debate with the confused humble me.
Ltz the reason why I have taken a firm line with you is because from the moment I posted this test I have noticed you have taken an unduly critical stance, and I know you are also a preset designer and ex associate of Xils.

.

For the record I have populated so many factory libraries and worked with, and not for, so many companies, and made presets for so many synths, including Ace ..., that the day you'll get there you'll probably be very happy. That doesn't make me an authority ( just mention that because you seem to like this word), but that doesnt make me without any experience as well. So that : you can only mention my work with a certain company if that fits your plan, but well ....

Then, you're completely wrong, I adressed you some -reasonable- kudos in the beginning of each of these threads. This is WRITTEN, just read. Once you began to be very defensive, with many people, then in the end attaced me, because I asked some rather neutral questions, ( as I never wrote that you had favored this ot that synth intentionnaly for example, I said just the opposite actually ) while I was pointing out the obvious - preset dont really match, dont they ?- I understood that you have lost the ability to discuss things on a certain neutral level. Well, this said, I can understand that ( until a certain point) . As for my business it goes very well. Thank you.

My only advice : Just be yourself. Dont compare you to me, or anyone else : Like synths, people are unique, have unique skills. All the best for developping yours. Dont bother to answer. I wont read you again.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:15 pm

Lotuzia wrote:So that : you can only mention my work with a certain company if that fits your plan, but well ....

not really - as demonstrated above - there appears plenty of evidence to support what appears to be a bias against u-he products and constant promotion of Xils Lab. Anyway - thanks for the dubious advice on how to live my life!

No worries if you dont read this. Best of luck.

Diva vs Analogue - a real world test