MuTools

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:55 am

Well, for one thing, Reaper has a kinda nasty mix of skinnable elements and non-skinnable OS elements. So it's not perfect either. At least in that regard MuLAB is consistent, using its own UI widgets for just about everything.

Grizzellda · Post by **Grizzellda** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:59 am

mutools wrote:Maybe 'Theming' is a better term then?

Sure! My question is how much flexibility would you allow?

runaudio wrote:all this talk about reaper whos care we are not here to talk about reaper so if its reaper you want to use go ahead

It's not "talking about REAPER"...it's about exploring ideas regarding customization, and where Jo stands on that.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:00 pm

runaudio wrote:just wondering what it look like alpha testing cant wait

I'll do my best to push this to the top of the M7 works so that we can already play with it soonish. Practically: I'm currently working on a routing aspect of the racks and will have to finish that task first. Then i'll work on extended theming.

runaudio · Post by **runaudio** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:02 pm

sounds great thank you

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:10 pm

Grizzellda wrote:Sure! My question is how much flexibility would you allow?

Can't exactly answer that question yet, needs a bit of code research first. But if i read your posts (cfr very customizable Reaper skins/themes) i think it will be less flexible than what you are dreaming of. After reading the different opinions here in this topic, and also having heard other opinions in the (recent) past, i think the current looks are relatively ok, but they need to be upgraded 'a bit' more in several aspects. And it's that 'bit' that can make a big difference in overall impression. So if i take that consideration together with the consideration that i want to balance this challenge with the other challenges on the M7 design plan (while i do agree on the importance of the looks!), i think it's best to keep the current system (ie. no total rewrite = very r&d time consuming) but make it more tweakable. Pls have a little bit of patience while i'll develop a test version of the extended theming.

Grizzellda · Post by **Grizzellda** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:21 pm

mutools wrote: i think the current looks are quite ok, but they need to be upgraded 'a bit' more in several aspects.

Agreed. I like your conservative approach! Maybe by version 8 (or 9!) we could have real, extensive, user theme-ing?

Hey, did you check out how those other sequencers handle plug-in management? I think that's basically standard now...

dakkra · Post by **dakkra** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:23 pm

Love the splash art on the previous page Jo

Dakkra

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:26 pm

Grizzellda wrote:Maybe by version 8 we could have real, extensive, user theme-ing?

That's not the plan. At the contrary, i'll try to avoid it. I've been there already with the first versions of MuLab, and believe me it has serious drawbacks, especially when also using bitmap pictures. If the theme system becomes too complex it may even become counter productive. And if i understand the opinions in this topic well, we don't need a similar level of themability as in Reaper to achieve a nice pro UI. It's more about finetuning certain balances, polishing details, and the fonts. Correct me if i'm taking wrong conclusions.

Hey, did you check out how those other sequencers handle plug-in management? I think that's basically standard now...

What do you mean?

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:29 pm

mutools wrote:
chuckwood wrote:In terms of user skinning, a little while ago I tried hacking the theme but came a bit unstuck when thinking about re-designing the knobs. I realised I would have to render any new knob design in several different rotated positions and I couldn't figure out a quick way to do that.
See http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/knobman.html
Seeing as the knob design was going to be a bit of trial and error anyway, would there be a way for us to simply create one position of the knob and have MUX/Mulab do the rotations.
If the source knob picture includes shadowing/lightning, then simply rotating the knob will not look good.

If a knob consisted of two layers - the detailed, rendered/shaded knob itself and, alpha-masked, the position indicator - then it should be fairly simple to rotate the latter and overlay it on the former to get any value. That gets around both problems.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:21 pm

What if the knob is not round, and hence also not its shadow? For example a knob like this:

Then if the shadow isn't rotated it will not look right, right?
And besides this aspect, the knob itself may also have subtle lightning/shading aspects.

mgiambro · Post by **mgiambro** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:18 pm

mutools wrote: Essentially i think i'll have to make the UI even more skinnable. I think the looks code does not need a completely rewrite, but rather needs extented parameterization and preferencing. And of course also make the font a user preference and select a better default one.
To be continued.

+1

Not sure if it has already been suggested, but it might be nice to have somewhere to post up images of themes, with an option to vote in order to gauge how popular they are. Could be helpful in choosing a theme for the marketing of M7. Ideally, it would be good to get the views of those who aren't already using MuLab, but that's probably easier said than done.

janhardo · Post by **janhardo** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:46 pm

I think the coloring of the tracks/racks in Mulab makes it looks cheap...while it is very advanced for the users who know what the musical depth of mulab is.

sl23 · Post by **sl23** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:15 pm

+1

Brighter colouring as default helps it look more professional.

Please don't change the knobs! I like the simple look and it makes it easy to see at a glance what position they're at.

Like the new splash, but miss the logo!

Could skinning be something you worked on as a sideline? I mean little bits here and there? so maybe in a future version it could simply be switched? I'd be happy with extra colouring options that cover the rest of the windows. But clearer naming is needed, I find several very cryptic and have to colour them purple or something just to see what it is they do!

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:21 pm

mutools wrote:What if the knob is not round, and hence also not its shadow? For example a knob like this:

Then if the shadow isn't rotated it will not look right, right?
And besides this aspect, the knob itself may also have subtle lightning/shading aspects.

Lighting effects that extreme need to be applied carefully as, if not done consistently throughout the UI, they just look wrong - that would require every aspect of the UI that could possible be expected to have depth to allow the same level of control. If that's desirable, then yes, it's going to be a lot of art work. However, that's a steep price if the majority of skins are not going to go to that level.

runaudio · Post by **runaudio** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:26 pm

love the new knobs wish they looked like that +1

MuTools

KVR Audio

MuLab & MUX UI Looks