Stupid questions about the evergoing not warm enough Zebra debate

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So, I know I love Zebra and whenever I want something fat, analogue, bold, you name it, I just go with Ace or Diva or even TN6 rather than spending way too much time eqing, exciting, chorusing, within and/or outside of Zebra via send tracks etc for an always more disappointing result, because, it's just not the way it's supposed to sound from the beginning.

But there's something somewhat frustrating about it cause you just can't have the fun of zebra OSC's within those other VA uhe plugs.... Vicious circle.

So I was thinking :
  • Now that Zebra3 is on "high priority", Zebra2 can, conceptually, be considered as a "vintage" digital synth.
  • Diva started with very old dinausors emulations and progressively integrated "younger" beasts with the JP80xx digital OSCs.
  • And now my question - sorry for the boring preamble - : wouldn't the "emulation" of Zebra2 OSCs be the logical follow-up of this approach ?
    Aside from the fun concept of some sort of meta UHE plugin, plus, a way to celebrate Zebra3 when it's out ? :)
Just my few cents. But I needed to share, sorry in advance if it already has been covered !


Cheers !
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RC,
I thought Zebra sounded great before ZebraHZ came out. Then I bought the Dark Zebra/ZebraHZ. Are you familiar with that? Here is a bit from its instruction manual:

"ZebraHZ started life as Hans Zimmer's customized version of Zebra2.5, with several of the requested features on board: classic analogue filter models like in Diva, a resonator effect module like in the old Polymoog, polyphonic compressors (per lane in the grid – especially good for drum sounds!) and two more mod-mappers. At present, ZebraHZ is a free update from Zebra2 specifically for owners of The Dark Zebra patch set."

Perhaps you would like that more.
You can hear my original music at this link: https://www.soundclick.com/artist/defau ... dID=224436
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Eq-ing, exciting and chorusing?
I'm afraid you are reaching for the wrong tools here. There are many tricks you can try within Zebra to get it sound "warm and fat" ...now what does those terms mean to you? Do you have a simple example?
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IMHO there's nothing wrong with Zebra's sound. It's just very flexible and as such capable of going beyond sweet spots, easily. When you use Diva you simply get a lot of sweet spot. If we transformed Diva into Zebra, that amount of sweet spot would be taken from her.

Nevertheless, Zebra2 isn't dead at all.
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If I misspoke, I apologize, but my intention was not to depreciate Zebra's sound, quite the contrary !

The title of my post was referring to several threads I stumbled across here and there (here being KVR and there being GearSlutz of course :) ) with people whining about the "cold", "sterile" sound of Zebra.

As far as I'm concerned I find it crystal clear and like Urs just said ,
Urs wrote:"It's just very flexible and as such capable of going beyond sweet spots, easily"
It's just Zebra is not Diva and conversely, and so much the better.

It happens I only realized now that trying to "DivaIze" zebra is a dead-end for it's not the point, and conversely.
So I just thought It would be funny to have the endless opportunities of Zebra Oscs in Diva (especially the osc FX), for it would bring :

1 - new sound design opportunities to Diva
2- Something both fun and logical with the evolution of Diva : Emulation of Analogue, Emulation of VA (jp80x), Emulation of digital (zebra)


Aaron, Yes I'm aware of HZ, didn't try it yet.
3ee, yes it's always the problem with abstract terms like that. What I'm going to do is maybe post a couple of presets of mine from both Zebra and Diva (the Diva one would be there to illustrate what I call "fat", "warm" and so on) and maybe you could share your informed opinion on what can be improved in my Zeb patch to get to the "sweet spot" Urs was mentioning if it's ok ?
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ok
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Urs wrote:IMHO there's nothing wrong with Zebra's sound. It's just very flexible and as such capable of going beyond sweet spots, easily. When you use Diva you simply get a lot of sweet spot. If we transformed Diva into Zebra, that amount of sweet spot would be taken from her.

Nevertheless, Zebra2 isn't dead at all.
Zebra2 simply replaced many other synths here because it is so flexible. I never really missed any warmth because i use different plugins afterwards anyway in the mixing process with layering, equing, compressing etc. so the "pure" sound itself of ANY synth can't be the only category always. I know it's a difficult topic and people tend to think that the own workflow is the best and if i don't see a problem why you? I'm afraid i'm not an exception. :)

Anyway looking forward to Zebra3!
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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RedChameau wrote:If I misspoke, I apologize, but my intention was not to depreciate Zebra's sound, quite the contrary !

The title of my post was referring to several threads I stumbled across here and there (here being KVR and there being GearSlutz of course :) ) with people whining about the "cold", "sterile" sound of Zebra.
Well I have read those funny 'hearing impression' statements about every other single high quality synth there is, so I came to the conclusion that those profound 'opinions' are not really that valuable for my own evaluation. 8)
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Hey Back again with a couple of presets, a soundcloud link, a midi file and even an inflatable penguin.

https://soundcloud.com/redchameau/zebdi ... st/s-QmTSW

So, to make it quick :
  • First part of the track is Zebra, second part is Diva
  • The idea is NOT to imitate DivA, the Diva part (and preset) of the track is here to illustrate what I call "warm" and "Fat"
  • Those are my own pad presets, I like these kind of pads, I like how both synth sound, I'm just a bit frustrated with my own current lack of ideas about how to reach the desired sonic "sweet spot" of these kind of pads within Zebra.
  • To elaborate on what I think could be improved : I find the attached Zebra Preset to lack "space", "bottom", and heck, let's add yet another abstract meaningless wording and pass myself as the pompous guy of the day, let's say it lacks the "quiver of sensual delight" of my Diva Pad preset :-?
Once again, the temptation to do Diva with Zebra is high, but It's not the idea. I've got plenty of other home made presets with Zebra which sound just fine to my ear, whether they're keys, pads, you name it.
It's just, when it comes to these kind of "rich", "warm" pads (here we go again :) ), I'm not as comfortable (understatement) as I am with Diva or Ace, and would like to improve.
So, if someone can enlighten me, well I'd be happy !

Thanks in advance !
Attached : Diva and Zebra Preset + the midi of the soundclound.
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No offense intended, but if i listen to the 2 patches there, i'd rather tend to think it's a programming thing. They really sound nothing like each other. And you even seem to have used a chorus on the Diva example, while not using one on the Zebra example, if i'm not totally wrong. I don't know Zebra much, but i fiddled a few times with ZebraCM, and it was quite warm. With warm i mean a decent bottom end, pleasing filter characteristic, and full oscillators sound, and pleasant detune sound when using unison. Which filter did you use in Zebra? Sounds pretty harsh to my ears.
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triple post
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Last edited by RedChameau on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chk071 wrote:They really sound nothing like each other. And you even seem to have used a chorus on the Diva example, while not using one on the Zebra example, if i'm not totally wrong.
Yeah Chk071 thanks for your contribution.
Though it's precisely why I put a special emphasis on

RedChameau wrote:The idea is NOT to imitate DivA, the Diva part (and preset) of the track is here to illustrate what I call "warm" and "Fat"



Those presets are not intended to be copies, but rather, I want them to match a certain idea of what is a "warm pad".

As for the use of Chorus, there is indeed a much more subtle chorus in the zebra preset I posted.
In the one below, however, it's supposed to be more present (amongst other things, this one other preset is also attached) :

https://soundcloud.com/redchameau/zebfatpad/s-kcquE

And still, I don't manage to obtain this "richness", I don't know how to put it... this fullness while keeping lows in place (each post I find new absurd terms, how brillant... :) )

As for how the presets are programmed - they're attached once again - but I can sum it this way :
(for the first preset anyway).

  • A stack of 3 osc spread over 3 octaves with different somewhat basic waveforms (mainly square for lows, saws, fins for highs) but with very rounded edges.
  • A shape module to fatten a lil bit the said stack
  • A VCF (ms2035 model) with enveloppe + slow LFO modulated cutoff and res and a certain amount of drive
  • A XMF biased with HP filter to bass boost a little, according to an Urs technique posted a while ago on KVR
  • In the FX panel, EQ, Dist module (too much), and a bit of chorus in the aux1 lane.
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One last for the road. (I promise ! :) )
My favorite so far, I should have started this conversation with it.
So, same chord progression, different zebra preset, soundcloud + preset attached.

I think it's good, it's almost satisfying. But yet, it still lacks something to fit within say, a "WARM PAD" preset folder , don't you think ?

https://soundcloud.com/redchameau/zebtest3/s-9RnIP
MR WARMYPAD.zip
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double post
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another double post, don't know why.
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