POOR customer service.

[basslinemaster]

I for one don't buy anything at all from that company for that reason

Because you don't back up your libraries as strongly suggested in the email you get which alerts you to the time frame in which you should download your purchased libraries and that you should definitely back them up? OK. Thanks for letting us know.

This is, as explained in the past, due to offering a high-availability, secure and high-performance download solution which is far from free (yet even the redownload credit - which unlocks ALL of your sound libraries with one credit - is cheaper than online backup solutions if you specifically choose not to back up your libraries locally). Instead of hosting it in the basement of a one-man shop or (as actually suggested by some) using an "unlimited" shared hosting plan or other cheapo/crap-o solution.

Also, if you have special circumstances where you have backed up your libraries or something similar yet you run into unforeseeable issues the IK support team is available to hear your case/request. Thank you.

Are you seriously suggesting that customers have not paid you enough during purchase to have a perma download solution available like EVERY other software supplier on the planet.

Yes, apparently they are! They apparently think we are so stupid that we can't go online and look up the cost of a hosting plan. They can buy a CHEAPO hosting plan specifically for RE-downloads, and nobody would mind in the slightest. They can happily say "RE-downloading will be at a slower rate than your original 180 day download period", and I'm sure most people would be more than happy with that. In the rare event that your hard drive and/or your back up hard drive failed, you would rather have a slow download than have to pay a ridiculous price for it. My virtual server costs £3.99 a month and I have six websites on it, and they all load faster than just about any other websites I've tried, so for 15 euros, or whatever it is, you could rent an even better server FOR JUST ONE CUSTOMER and let them download from it. We know how much these things cost, which is why we know IKM are ripping people off. It's laughable. They think they are going to make more money out of their customers, without realizing they are LOSING customers because of their penny pinching attitude...

[basslinemaster]

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 0#p6188112

I suppose some people don't know us, but it's slightly amusing to see the paranoia. We have been delivering Lifetime Free Updates for 17 years now and have over 30,000 demo installations per day. If we were doing something nefarious I am sure it would be all over the net by now. Word of mouth is a very important form of advertising for us.

30,000 demo installations (not customers downloading FL Studio) a day, at 0.5GB each, 15,000 GB a day.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

....just not worth it......

[trimph1]

...

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Wow. Another IK bashing session.

it's a shame to write it off as just that, as this is pretty justified

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[JJ_Jettflow]

I for one don't buy anything at all from that company for that reason

Because you don't back up your libraries as strongly suggested in the email you get which alerts you to the time frame in which you should download your purchased libraries and that you should definitely back them up? OK. Thanks for letting us know.

This is, as explained in the past, due to offering a high-availability, secure and high-performance download solution which is far from free (yet even the redownload credit - which unlocks ALL of your sound libraries with one credit - is cheaper than online backup solutions if you specifically choose not to back up your libraries locally). Instead of hosting it in the basement of a one-man shop or (as actually suggested by some) using an "unlimited" shared hosting plan or other cheapo/crap-o solution.

Also, if you have special circumstances where you have backed up your libraries or something similar yet you run into unforeseeable issues the IK support team is available to hear your case/request. Thank you.

Sorry, I see this as nothing more than a money grab. Every single other software company out provides a user area that allows users to go back and download their purchases without having to pay a fee....regardless of the time period. Very small companies will give you a timed download window but if you ever need another copy, a quick email and you get a new d/l link....no charge.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i will say that IK's download servers for me personally are the best of any dev i have EVER experienced. And in the last ten years, 100% consistently so, unlike steinberg, and YES XLN, arturia, NI, etc.

I always with IK get the maximum possible bandwidth that MY connection is capable of. I recently downloaded 10 ST3 libraries, the full ST3 library itself, total workstation (miro, moog, tron, etc) and all my ST2 libraries - and i got 100 mb/s the entire time.

So obviously they are paying for some sort of premium server, there can't be any other explanation. And i have never experienced a single down time at their site - and i have been a customer since 2001/2002, with then crappy australian internet.

Every other dev I have been a customer of with major size content to download, has given me periodic log in issues and definitely speed issues. XLN server is reliable enough but there is no way i get the full speed like IK gives me, not with my previous house in adsl and not in this one with 100mbit cable.

NI and Steinberg on a good day give me good speeds but their servers get hammered occasionally and I have slow speeds (as does everyone) - why does that not happen with IK?

6 months is heaps.

The only thing I do agree with is that the customers should be allowed to have it non consecutive, in 30 day blocks. That's actually a very cool idea that was brought up in this topic.

that's all good, but not really the point. the point is that the fee is a penalty, fixed at an arbitrary price that bears no relevance to the explanations given

first, let's dispense with the fact that robust servers for companies that deal in downloads should be a part of a company's costs. that a company chooses to have one that is supposedly better than all the rest is not a factor for most i.e no one is avoiding NI because of downloading issues, which have always worked for me without issue

then consider the scenario where nobody ever needs to re-download. does that mean that suddenly ik can no longer pay for the bandwidth ??

also, we know that the cost of a token bears no relation to the bandwidth because it's the same whether you'd need 3gigs worth of content or 200gig

if ik really are in need of the extra fees, then the idea for the re-downloads to be farmed out to cheaper servers is a good one.

[Burillo]

here we go again. look, i don't agree with this IK policy, and i've mentioned this on numerous occasions where appropriate, but there comes a point where this is crossing into the abuse.

[basslinemaster]

Wow. Another IK bashing session.

Wow. Another pointless post from trimph1, trying to silence any justified criticism of IKM... Just like in the other thread...

[basslinemaster]

here we go again. look, i don't agree with this IK policy, and i've mentioned this on numerous occasions where appropriate, but there comes a point where this is crossing into the abuse.

Yes, putting up factual, logical explanations as to why IK's policy is purely about making money out of existing customers, is "crossing into the abuse".

Another attempt, like trimph1, to silence any dissent on here.

[Halma]

Just curious but can you guys provide me some serious case studies (at least one would be cool but three would be better) on this topic? It is really hard to find some infos about the assumptions some of you guys made here.

Tbh: I would not start or change a biz that relies on suggestions being made in an audio forum that could not be verified or falsified.

[Burillo]

Yes, putting up factual, logical explanations as to why IK's policy is purely about making money out of existing customers, is "crossing into the abuse".

Another attempt, like trimph1, to silence any dissent on here.

i'm not silencing dissent. just pointing out that you've already made your point, and there's no need to further bash it in. you made your case, IK has replied. for better or worse, this is likely all you're going to get, and any additional prolonged rants with vague (and not so vague) accusations towards IK that you can't back up with factual evidence are crossing the line of abuse.

[basslinemaster]

So my providing evidence to back up my position is "bashing it in"? "prolonged rants", "accusations", etc. etc.

I think you mean "Yes, IKM have been exposed and they haven't got a leg to stand on. Please stop informing everybody else of what they are doing."

What they are doing is wrong, and everybody needs to know why, so some of us are just telling people how little these things cost. Maybe then IKM will stop charging this fee. What more "factual evidence" do you want? We've explained that they cannot justify the 15 Euros charge, because the cost to them is so minute as to be virtually impossible to measure, AND users have already paid hundreds of euros, in most cases, for the software they MAY want to redownload.

We're talking about probably 0.01% of customers wanting to redownload anything after the 180 day period.

[basslinemaster]

Just curious but can you guys provide me some serious case studies (at least one would be cool but three would be better) on this topic? It is really hard to find some infos about the assumptions some of you guys made here.

Tbh: I would not start or change a biz that relies on suggestions being made in an audio forum that could not be verified or falsified.

Google 'web hosting', look at the prices. Imagine what sort of hosting service IKM uses (or Image Line, for that matter). I explained that Image Line serves 30,000 downloads of the FL Studio demo every day, 15,000GB worth, and it isn't a problem for them. Therefore the IKM charge is money grabbing. End of argument. (But apparently IKM have some 'secret' operational reasons that they can't tell us about, for 'business reasons', that prevent them from offering the downloads for free... - and they think their customers are stupid enough to believe this...)