POOR customer service.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Yes, putting up factual, logical explanations as to why IK's policy is purely about making money out of existing customers, is "crossing into the abuse".

Another attempt, like trimph1, to silence any dissent on here.

i'm not silencing dissent. just pointing out that you've already made your point, and there's no need to further bash it in. you made your case, IK has replied. for better or worse, this is likely all you're going to get, and any additional prolonged rants with vague (and not so vague) accusations towards IK that you can't back up with factual evidence are crossing the line of abuse.

Yeah but that could apply to many topics here and on other boards.

As well, I do not really find IK's reply to be a satisfactory answer especially when they are one of the very few companies that charge to re-download purchases. I had purchased Miroslav no brainer for very cheap and lost the library to it. The token was more than I paid for the program so I do not think it is a great value. Nor do I see any real performance difference when d/ling a file from IK than any other company so I really can't say the charge is worthwhile or necessary.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Wow. Another IK bashing session.

Well if there are so many "IK bashing sessions" as you say, maybe there is a reason for it.

[Halma]

Just curious but can you guys provide me some serious case studies (at least one would be cool but three would be better) on this topic? It is really hard to find some infos about the assumptions some of you guys made here.

Tbh: I would not start or change a biz that relies on suggestions being made in an audio forum that could not be verified or falsified.

Google 'web hosting', look at the prices. Imagine what sort of hosting service IKM uses (or Image Line, for that matter). I explained that Image Line serves 30,000 downloads of the FL Studio demo every day, 15,000GB worth, and it isn't a problem for them. Therefore the IKM charge is money grabbing. End of argument. (But apparently IKM have some 'secret' operational reasons that they can't tell us about, for 'business reasons', that prevent them from offering the downloads for free... - and they think their customers are stupid enough to believe this...)

Sry but that does not count as a case study. So no "end of argument". And you have explained nothing. Some basic math based on some obscure posts does not make a reliable business plan. Hopefully you are not a lawyer...

[lfm]

I don't get why you needed to buy ST3 to import ST1 libraries you already had.
They provide a free version of ST3, but not able to use ST1 library.

They dumped 32-bit engines and provide 64-bit for free with some material, but not for already bought stuff.

So some choices they made are odd, IMO.
The products are pretty good, but their customercare is not top notch - so we stay away anyway.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Just curious but can you guys provide me some serious case studies (at least one would be cool but three would be better) on this topic? It is really hard to find some infos about the assumptions some of you guys made here.

Tbh: I would not start or change a biz that relies on suggestions being made in an audio forum that could not be verified or falsified.

Google 'web hosting', look at the prices. Imagine what sort of hosting service IKM uses (or Image Line, for that matter). I explained that Image Line serves 30,000 downloads of the FL Studio demo every day, 15,000GB worth, and it isn't a problem for them. Therefore the IKM charge is money grabbing. End of argument. (But apparently IKM have some 'secret' operational reasons that they can't tell us about, for 'business reasons', that prevent them from offering the downloads for free... - and they think their customers are stupid enough to believe this...)

Sry but that does not count as a case study. So no "end of argument". And you have explained nothing. Some basic math based on some obscure posts does not make a reliable business plan. Hopefully you are not a lawyer...

It is not much of a reliable business plan to charge customers unnecessarily either. Since very few companies do this, I would assume the majority of companies have included the cost into the price of the product. If not, all companies would have a similar charge and IK would not look out of place. But from NI to SynthMagic, none charge their customers for this so I believe the onus is on IK to show the costs and explain why...not the customers.

[Burillo]

Yeah but that could apply to many topics here and on other boards.

no, not even close.

How do you still have your job, Peter? I am constantly amazed at what you write on a public forum, as a 'customer care' representative of a company.

They would rather go bust than admit they are wrong about anything at all. Rather like Microsoft lost hundreds of millions of dollars with Windows 8, because they couldn't admit they were wrong with 'Metro'. The average person in the street would never be that stupid and arrogant - they know how important it is to make as much money as possible by giving your customers what they want, yet we have some of the largest companies in the world effectively saying "Screw you" to their customers, and then taking huge losses because of their fragile egos.

Are you seriously suggesting that customers have not paid you enough during purchase to have a perma download solution available like EVERY other software supplier on the planet.

Yes, apparently they are! They apparently think we are so stupid that we can't go online and look up the cost of a hosting plan.
<...>
We know how much these things cost, which is why we know IKM are ripping people off. It's laughable. They think they are going to make more money out of their customers, without realizing they are LOSING customers because of their penny pinching attitude...

these have nothing to do with the issue. these are personal attacks and baseless accusations. and this isn't the first time basslinemaster does this either - look no further than SampleTank 3 threads to see countless examples of him accusing IK of malicious intents of various kind.

-----

So my providing evidence to back up my position is "bashing it in"? "prolonged rants", "accusations", etc. etc.

OK, can you point me to any evidence you have for, say, the following claim?

Are you seriously suggesting that customers have not paid you enough during purchase to have a perma download solution available like EVERY other software supplier on the planet.

Yes, apparently they are! They apparently think we are so stupid that we can't go online and look up the cost of a hosting plan.

and spare me your conspiracy theories. just cold hard facts. got any?

I think you mean "Yes, IKM have been exposed and they haven't got a leg to stand on. Please stop informing everybody else of what they are doing."

well then you "apparently" should try to think for myself, as this is not at all what i mean. what i mean is, don't mix your questions to IK with personal insults. not clear enough yet?

What they are doing is wrong, and everybody needs to know why

so i take it you know why? again, got any hard facts to back up the claims you're making?

What more "factual evidence" do you want?

i want evidence backing up your claims, not your own opinions that offer kinda sorta maybe a possible justification IK does this that you keep stating as a fact.

We've explained that they cannot justify the 15 Euros charge, because the cost to them is so minute as to be virtually impossible to measure, AND users have already paid hundreds of euros, in most cases, for the software they MAY want to redownload.

We're talking about probably 0.01% of customers wanting to redownload anything after the 180 day period.

so i take it you have access to their financial statements?

[trimph1]

...

[Halma]

Just curious but can you guys provide me some serious case studies (at least one would be cool but three would be better) on this topic? It is really hard to find some infos about the assumptions some of you guys made here.

Tbh: I would not start or change a biz that relies on suggestions being made in an audio forum that could not be verified or falsified.

Google 'web hosting', look at the prices. Imagine what sort of hosting service IKM uses (or Image Line, for that matter). I explained that Image Line serves 30,000 downloads of the FL Studio demo every day, 15,000GB worth, and it isn't a problem for them. Therefore the IKM charge is money grabbing. End of argument. (But apparently IKM have some 'secret' operational reasons that they can't tell us about, for 'business reasons', that prevent them from offering the downloads for free... - and they think their customers are stupid enough to believe this...)

Sry but that does not count as a case study. So no "end of argument". And you have explained nothing. Some basic math based on some obscure posts does not make a reliable business plan. Hopefully you are not a lawyer...

It is not much of a reliable business plan to charge customers unnecessarily either. Since very few companies do this, I would assume the majority of companies have included the cost into the price of the product. If not, all companies would have a similar charge and IK would not look out of place. But from NI to SynthMagic, none charge their customers for this so I believe the onus is on IK to show the costs and explain why...not the customers.

Of course it is part of a serious and reliable business plan if you wanna charge extra money for something or not. Only because other companies don´t charge for it does not mean it is irrelevant. If the company does not charge for it then it has to be compensated somewhere else. It is part of their State of Income.

And please no more "Check out Google" answer.

Some of you guys came up with some bold statements and if you can´t back them up with some good and reliable sources that supports them I don´t see any reason in discussing this topic any further because it is a waste of time for me. And time is money.

[basslinemaster]

All I can say is LOL at Burillo. I clearly and simply proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that IKM's fees are unreasonable, because Image Line does 15,000GB of free downloads for NON-customers (for demoes of FL Studio). I can post up links to specific hosting companies, if those of you who are incapable of facing reality (and therefore can't use Google) don't believe me about how hosting costs are. I've proved my point.

I proved my point about Microsoft, didn't I, Burillo? Or do you think they actually had overwhelmingly positive feedback from usability testing of Metro? LOL. Microsoft lost hundreds of millions of dollars because they couldn't admit their new design was rubbish. Or did something else happen?

As for the other few who keep posting one liners and then whining "I'm out of here", or words to that effect - what exactly are you trying to achieve, other than pathetically trying to shame people into silence? Why post if you have no argument to offer? Why read a thread that upsets you so much? How do you cope with the real world?

[Burillo]

basslinemaster, you keep missing the point. you're so sure of yourself you don't hear your own self and entirely miss how you intersperse bits of what one could consider facts with mountains of personal attacks and baseless assertions and confrontational rhethoric. but whatever, i'm done with you. welcome to my ignore list.

[chk071]

All I can say is LOL at Burillo. I clearly and simply proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that IKM's fees are unreasonable, because Image Line does 15,000GB of free downloads for NON-customers (for demoes of FL Studio).

Err. You can see that as advertising expenses, because every demo user is a potential future customer. How does that even compare to the situation here? If IK wouldn't handle it the way they do now, they'd have to raise the prices for their software. Do you want that?

[JJ_Jettflow]

Of course it is part of a serious and reliable business plan if you wanna charge extra money for something or not. Only because other companies don´t charge for it does not mean it is irrelevant. If the company does not charge for it then it has to be compensated somewhere else. It is part of their State of Income.

And please no more "Check out Google" answer.

Some of you guys came up with some bold statements and if you can´t back them up with some good and reliable sources that supports them I don´t see any reason in discussing this topic any further because it is a waste of time for me. And time is money.

It may very well be a serious and reliable business plan but it is not a smart one, especially if none to very little of your competitors charge for the same service. It may be tolerable to a customer if some sort of superior service or superior product is involved. IK's products are not by any means a gold standard for quality or features and like I stated before, I see no visible d/l time advantage to any other company that does not charge.

It is the customer's choice to decide if the charge is worth the product in question and in my case it is no.

[JJ_Jettflow]

All I can say is LOL at Burillo. I clearly and simply proved, beyond any reasonable doubt, that IKM's fees are unreasonable, because Image Line does 15,000GB of free downloads for NON-customers (for demoes of FL Studio).

Err. You can see that as advertising expenses, because every demo user is a potential future customer. How does that even compare to the situation here? If IK wouldn't handle it the way they do now, they'd have to raise the prices for their software. Do you want that?

If I am not mistaken, they already raised their prices. I remember their CS EQs and Comps being $99 and now they are like $129?

[stardustmedia]

Isn't it possible to backup those data contents for future issues?

[trimph1]

Wow. Another IK bashing session.

it's a shame to write it off as just that, as this is pretty justified

I apologize for the comment.